warning shots

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Windy Wilson
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Re: warning shots

Post by Windy Wilson »

Precision wrote:
Jered wrote:If someone is already to the point where he's doing something that makes me feel the need to shoot him, he doesn't get a warning.

He gets a shot.

I agree, then up it to "anything (anyone) worth shooting is worth shooting twice".
(or more), and "I was amazed that he didn't go down right away like you see in the movies" (for why there are 12 bullets in the Orc when he was standing within arm's length of you).

Colonel Cooper recounts in his book, "To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth", the case of a man who was attacked, and, using a .380, emptied the gun into the assailant. A DA wanted to press charges, on the theory that "you emptied the gun into him, that was overkill and you executed him in cold blood". Colonel Cooper experimented with how fast he could keep a mag full of .380 on a target at the distances involved and concluded that it could be done quickly enough to be within what he termed "hot blood". Cooper concluded with an observation that .380 wasn't a big enough caliber either in the moment or in the courtroom.
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"I believe in Freedom of Speech, but". . .
"I support the Second Amendment, but". . .
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D5CAV
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Re: warning shots

Post by D5CAV »

Proper Response in Court

Prosecutor: "Why did you shoot [bad guy] 7 times?"

D5: "Because the gun stopped working after 7 shots"
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Vonz90
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Re: warning shots

Post by Vonz90 »

Greg wrote:
randy wrote: And I repeat my earlier comments, in summary: If you are not legally/morally justified in shooting the person, then you are not justified in pulling the trigger, period.
Randy pretty much nails it right here.
Hmm, I don't know that I would completely agree with that. In the scenario stated here, I don't think warning shots are justified, but that does not mean that they are never so justified.

I have never fired warning shots, but I have had men working under my direct supervision do so, and it was justified under the ROE we were working under at the time. A litteral shot across the bow can be an effective communicatin tool for dumb asses who can't get the message that the boat which drove in front of them and pointed their guns at them is not playing (there are a lot of such dumb asses in the third world).

I also noticed that the Army has backed off on the "no warning shots ever" for their ROE training on the way here. Ultimately, shooting every dumb ass (or group of 'em) who can't take the hint that they need to turn around and go the other way is not a good way to win the hearts and minds around here.

Of course that is military situation, not always applicable in home/personal defense situation. That does not mean never though. The basic idea of a warning shot (like at sea) is a communication tool, and it implies some degree of distance. If you are close enough to be in fear of your life or if you are in a situation where you have to worry about your round going somewhere unsafe, then they are out of the question.

I think they would be especially likely if you are in a rural area of a state like Missouri (I think Texas too) where deadly force is legal for the protection of property.
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mekender
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Re: warning shots

Post by mekender »

perhaps the only time warning shots are appropriate are when you are attempting to get a boat/ship to stop...
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Vonz90
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Re: warning shots

Post by Vonz90 »

mekender wrote:perhaps the only time warning shots are appropriate are when you are attempting to get a boat/ship to stop...
...Or

What if there is a mob of people coming towards you. Fire a warning shot while you still have some distance between you or wait until your life IS threatened and start shooting them? (This could be a mob of pissed off third worlders or the Rodney King riots, same/same.)

or (assuming you are in a state that allows the use of deadly force for the protection of property) what if someone is 20 yards away running away with your ____ that you paid a lot of money for and need. Go center of mass on the first shot or fire a warning shot to try to get them to stop or just watch them run away? (I think the right answer could be any of the three depending on the circumstances.)

...and certainly there are other scenarios two. Now none of these are run of the mill home/personal defense situation. I fully agree that warning shots in such a case are not a good idea, but to say that there will never be a case between going center of mass and nothing, I don't think that is correct.
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Kommander
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Re: warning shots

Post by Kommander »

If your being pursued by a mob I think that you time is better spent getting the hell out of the area than firing warning shots. Unless you have a belt fed MG your not going to be able to keep the mob off you via firepower and I think in most cases shooting into the mob is only going to piss them off more. Also if one is worried about an approaching mob I think it is safe to say that one is in a hostile area and presuming one manages to escape from the mob said "warning shot" rounds may well be needed later for specific threats.


Oh and Thread Necro FTW!
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Vonz90
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Re: warning shots

Post by Vonz90 »

Kommander wrote:If your being pursued by a mob I think that you time is better spent getting the hell out of the area than firing warning shots. Unless you have a belt fed MG your not going to be able to keep the mob off you via firepower and I think in most cases shooting into the mob is only going to piss them off more. Also if one is worried about an approaching mob I think it is safe to say that one is in a hostile area and presuming one manages to escape from the mob said "warning shot" rounds may well be needed later for specific threats.


Oh and Thread Necro FTW!
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, but I think in most situations like that, running is probably not an option. Obviously, if there are enough people and they decide they are going to get you come hell or high water, you are screwed. However, that is I think the rare exception. In most cases, they are going to go the path of least resistance and one would hope that path is somewhere else other than through you.

In the Rodney King riots would be an example of what I am talking about. The guys who demonstrated in front of/on top of their homes/businesses with weapons (and in some cases fired off a round or two to show they meant business) mostly had their stuff left alone.
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HTRN
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Re: warning shots

Post by HTRN »

Kommander wrote:Oh and Thread Necro FTW!
I have a macro for that:
Image

:mrgreen:


HTRN
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Dedicated_Dad
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Re: warning shots

Post by Dedicated_Dad »

D5CAV wrote:Proper Response in Court

Prosecutor: "Why did you shoot [bad guy] 7 times?"

D5: "Because the gun stopped working after 7 shots"
Many years ago, I had a cop advise me to fire my last round into a floor or ceiling as "proof of a warning shot." Obviously bad advice.

He also advised me to empty the weapon, because there's lots of evidence that people in real fear will keep pulling the trigger long after it's empty. He basically said "one between the eyes is seen as calculated murder, "spray and pray" is indicative of real panic/fear. This actually seems to me to be GOOD advice, but I welcome input. Honestly, I think the fact is that if someone's running at me I'm likely to end up emptying it anyway, without thinking...

DD
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HTRN
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Re: warning shots

Post by HTRN »

NVGdude wrote:Say this out loud "I was afraid for my life, so I fired a 'warning shot'"
Ah, the "Uncle Jimbo Defense".


HTRN
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