warning shots

The place for beginners, or anyone else, to talk about gun, gear, and shooting topics with a minimum of jargon and/or geekery. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask that blows up in your face later.
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mekender
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:31 pm

Re: warning shots

Post by mekender »

I dont have people over that act like that first of all...

secondly, the people that do come over to my house treat my place like theirs... so if someone started acting like that, and even got physical, they would be dealt with quickly and without much fuss.

in all likelihood, if a situation developed into something so serious that a gun was needed for defense, then there were MULTIPLE errors made by the homeowner that lead up to that... at least in your party scenario.

If the point is EVER reached where lethal force is needed, the first warning that a bad guy will have is the report of the first shot being fired. My logic, there are a great number of levels of the situation that have to be crossed BEFORE lethal force is justifiable. Those levels are crossed by the bad guy, and he does so consciously. His actions are at his own peril.
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
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Kommander
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Re: warning shots

Post by Kommander »

I think your local Iowa LEOs need to refamiliarize themselves with the written law. But since you are no longer in Iowa that is neither here nor there. In Texas on your property you can have you gun anywhere and in any condition (loaded, unloaded, baked in a pie, etc). You dont need to have it put away in some special storage area. If you wanted to carry said gun on your belt during the party that would be your prerogative.

Now if you want to carry outside your property in Texas your going to need a permit and keep it concealed.
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Aglifter
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Re: warning shots

Post by Aglifter »

Barring being an idiot, by the time you need to expose your gun, you need to be firing it. Also, nowhere in TX are you not allowed to have a gun on your person, in your house... I doubt there's such a requirement in Iowa, either. Now, a secure storage area is a good idea for parties... I will say this, if, for some reason, you're reluctant to call the police -- say, worried about MIPs --which is a dumb concern when you're thinking about using a gun, and your LEO dept. may have a policy about not responding to lesser crimes if called in for something like a home invasion -- think axe.

I realize this sounds dumb/weird, and you may not have the large, scrufty looking friends to pull it off, but nothing says, "I'm crazy, and get out of my house" like an axe. Your typical college moron doesn't really believe that someone will shoot him for not leaving a party, but an axe says "I'm drunk, mean, and violently insane" in a uniquely effective manner.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto
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mekender
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Re: warning shots

Post by mekender »

http://opencarry.org/ia.html

looks like so long as you arent in the city, you can open carry
Iowa is not a traditional open carry state, but no permit is required to open carry except when in vehicles or when inside city limits. Open carry in cities is technically legal with an Iowa permit to carry weapons, however Iowa is a may-issue state, and some sheriffs have indicated that they will revoke your permit for open carrying.
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
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First Shirt
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Re: warning shots

Post by First Shirt »

A good friend of mine used to have a sign in his shop that said "The only warning shot you'll get is if I miss with the first one. And I haven't missed in years!"

I've always liked that philosophy.
But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Lindy Cooper Wisdom
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tcourtplayer
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:05 pm

Re: warning shots

Post by tcourtplayer »

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The best advise I've ever gotten on this topic came from my weapon carry instructor:

If its serious enough to draw your weapon its serious enough to shoot. A gun IS NOT A NEGOTIATION TOOL, it is a SELF DEFENSE TOOL. Treat it as such.
JAG: So why do you need armor piercing ammo?
tcourtplayer: Zombies
JAG: For when they hide behind engine blocks?
tcourtplayer: Just because the movies say they will be dumb and slow doesn't make it true.
JAG: WOW!!!
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randy
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Re: warning shots

Post by randy »

mulligan wrote:Her thoughts on shooting the floor/ceiling: "I'm aiming at the floor, not any person."
That statement shows she has no knowledge of either the legalities nor the physics of firearms.

How does she know she's not aiming at any person (if in a multi-story building)? Does she have X-Ray vision? Has she ever heard the term "ricochet"?

OK, she's not aiming at any person. No intent. Which means if the round punches through a floor/ceiling or ricochets and kills someone, she'll only be charged with negligent homicide, not murder.

You might refer her to some of the articles on "The Box O' Truth".

And I repeat my earlier comments, in summary: If you are not legally/morally justified in shooting the person, then you are not justified in pulling the trigger, period.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
Rentsy

Re: warning shots

Post by Rentsy »

If the switch in your head that says "Fire your weapon" flips, it is to be assumed that you are firing to defend yourself from immediate harm. This is done by trying to hit the enemy.

Anything else will get you killed, or worse, sued. Don't use "warning shots" to justify a lax firearm discharge. It is stupid.
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Whirlibird
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Re: warning shots

Post by Whirlibird »

As an LEO, I will say this as simply as possible.

Shoot to STOP. If it takes 1 shot or 19, Shoot 'til the attack stops.
If the moron dies from the event, too bad for him/her.
That warning shot, may just have been the last shot needed to end the incident without you suffering injury or worse.

Warning shots are a bunch of things, all bad.
They waste ammunition.
They may give the perpetrator the false belief that you didn't intend to miss and cause them to spur on their attack.
They are a hazard to anyone downrange, be it in the next room or the next county.
They distract you from the immediate threat.

Your roommate is in for a heck of a eyeopener if anything bad ever happens.

However in your situation, you have asked the person to leave, then told them. They are now trespassing.
They follow you and initiate physical contact (you are already so screwed!), they have now committed harassment or assault (depends on local laws) and combining the two are now committing a burglary.
This person is comitting a Felony!
This person already has their hands on you, it doesn't take that long to kill or maim someone who you are hands-on with.
This person will likely attempt to remove the weapon from your grasp, pointing it away from them only aids them with this.
At this point you NEED every last BB in the piece to ensure your SURVIVAL!

Another thing to think about, if they get their hands on you while you are retreiving the weapon, how do you think they are going to grab you?
What direction are you most likely to be facing? (Hint: It ain't gonna be facing them)

Another way to look at it:
We (I'm the big stupid drunk) have a disagreement and you let me get ahold of you when your gun isn't pointed directly at me. I'm fully able to do some serious bodily injury (damage!) while you are just trying to keep your weapon in your hand. You will be focused on trying to keep the gun away from me that you're gonna miss most of what's happening to you. If you let me get hands-on, you will most likely not be able to shoot me, nor will you be able to walk away from the situation.

You said it, this person is bigger than you. Stronger than you. Angry and drunk= Stupid.
You mistaking big stupid drunk for anything but a danger, could cost you more than a trip to the hospital.

Also point this out to her, women don't have upper body strength to speak of.
I get my hands on her and I will be able to do her some serious harm if she's lucky.
Her only chance is to render me incapable of inflicting harm on her.
Of stopping the assault.

Bang. (Repeat as needed!)
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Catbird
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Re: warning shots

Post by Catbird »

mulligan wrote:
You are having a party at your home.
A confrontational, intoxicated, uninvited person has somehow managed to get in the house.
You have a previous history with this person, including physical confrontation (he's bigger than you).
I would go get my gun from its "required by law" storage space at this point.
Person is asked to leave, then TOLD to leave. This escalated the issue.
Ordering the person to leave is the warning shot.

Keep the weapon down/pointed in a safe direction and tell someone to call the police.

Keep everyone as calm as possible. Don't talk to the uninvited person except to tell him the police are on the way and that he needs to leave. Keep telling him to leave until:

A) he leaves,
B) the police arrive and take control of the situation, or
C) he makes a move on someone. Shoot to stop if necessary.

If the situation has devolved to the point where he's jumping you while you're trying to retrieve your weapon from storage, then events have progressed way beyond warning shots.
"If at first you don't succeed, that's one data point." XKCD
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