warning shots

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mulligan

warning shots

Post by mulligan »

Howdy

My roommate and I had a spirited discussion about the usefulness of a warning shot when confronting someone who is has entered your personal space and refuses to leave.

She thinks it's a good idea and I don't. I'm hoping to get some additional views to augment my persuasion skills since we pretty much went 'round and round' for an hour repeating the same stuff at each other.

I introduced a mock scenario based loosely on a report I found someplace on the web:

You are having a party at your home.
A confrontational, intoxicated, uninvited person has somehow managed to get in the house.
You have a previous history with this person, including physical confrontation (he's bigger than you).
Person is asked to leave, then TOLD to leave. This escalated the issue.
You go get your gun from its "required by law" storage space in another room.
Person follows you and initiates physical contact while you are retrieving weapon.

Do you fire a warning shot?

I tend to think a warning shot in a house full of people is reckless; and in a room with a guy who's shoving you its a waste of time (and ammo).

the roomie sees a warning shot as necessary to warn/alert/get attention of people as well as confirming the seriousness of your intent to the attacker.

discuss please/thanks
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randy
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Re: warning shots

Post by randy »

First, I'd move away from any location where you are "required by law" to keep a home defense weapon inaccessible. ;) I know not the point of your question, but just to point out that not every place has such idiotic laws.

No warning shots. Period.

1. Tactically it's a bad move. You're wasting time and ammunition. It gives time for the goblin to close with you or to draw and fire his own weapon. Many criminal types will look at a warning shot as proof that you don't have the "guts" to shoot someone and will actually increase the pace of their attack, especially in close quarters.

2. It's also a bad move in that you are legally and morally responsible for every round you send down range. In a building how do you know you're bullet won't penetrate and kill an innocent third party?

3. Legally, it's mixed depending on where you live. In general, you are authorized to use deadly force to defend yourself (or others) from an imminent threat to life or limb. Some prosecutors will look at the fact that you took the time to waste a round as proof that you were NOT in imminent danger, and, in reference to #2 above, were in fact recklessly and negligently endangering the lives of others by firing such a shot.

Bottom line, if you are in a situation where you feel that threatened, the legal, tactical, and IMHO moral thing to do is to put the first round center of mass of the target.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
DougWojtowicz

Re: warning shots

Post by DougWojtowicz »

Ask how how she'd feel if her wayward shot ended up in someone who wasn't committing a crime.

Now ask her how she'd feel if that wayward person died from a warning shot, and not a round that overpenetrated or only missed the OBVIOUS threat by mere inches.

Because a missed round or a blow-through round is par for the course in all self defense instances, while warning shots and rounds fired into the air are launched without concern of where it should go, and emergency rooms are filled with people who've suffered injuries from falling or missed bullets.
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Darrell
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Re: warning shots

Post by Darrell »

If it's time to get your gun, it's time to shoot the bad guy. Big ditto on wasting ammo with a warning shot.
Eppur si muove--Galileo
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Kommander
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Re: warning shots

Post by Kommander »

I am unaware of any Texas law that requires that you store a defensive weapon in an inaccessible location. Is this a law for just where you live? Anyway I also think that the warning shots are a bad idea and for the same reasons randy already stated. Also when the person refused to leave the first thing I would do it call the police. Let them deal with this ass.
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Rich
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Re: warning shots

Post by Rich »

First, intoxicated/drug addled (redundancy alert) people do not behave rationally. What you think of as a warning may be taken as a challenge. So be careful about introducing a firearm into the situation.

Try to calm the person down. If that can't be done, don't be shy about calling for reinforcements, whether it's the Sheriff or the person's mother/wife/significant other, etc.

If you do have to get your gun, be prepared to use it, and then accept the consequences if or as they occur.

Hypothetical situations may sound alike, yet be vastly different in real time.
A weak government usually remains a servant of citizens, while a strong government usually becomes the master of its subjects.
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Fivetoes
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Re: warning shots

Post by Fivetoes »

In your situation you first call the police and report a tresspasser, that is the warning. Then if you feel he is going to do bodily harm you shoot him, in the center of mass.
mulligan

Re: warning shots

Post by mulligan »

Actually I'm a Texas import, but I was raised in Iowa where I'm told any visible firearm is considered a 'threat', permit or no. This "policy" info 2nd hand from local Iowa LEO's, off the record of course as it's not in print anywhere I've seen. Regardless of location though, the whole thing is really just an imagination exercise sparked by something we saw on TV and my hazy recall of past reading on the web.

I think if you've time to walk to a different room and unpack your weapon you can call 911 en route, or if you lack the motor skills for dual-tasking (walking and dialing) there's plenty of people at the party who could dial while you are arming up. However, until 911 gets star trek transporter technology, odds are good the whole thing will be over before LEO's can arrive.

Her thoughts on shooting the floor/ceiling: "I'm aiming at the floor, not any person."

My thoughts: look before you shoot, and look while you shoot. If you are not looking at the bad guy he must not be much of a threat or you're running away. If you're shooting at a place (floor) and looking at the bad guy you are all kinds of wrong .. imo.

As a side note it came up in the discussion one should have the freedom to shoot one's own possessions at any time. Which I agree with, provided no one else's possession are downrange.
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AZMARK
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Re: warning shots

Post by AZMARK »

mulligan wrote: You have a previous history with this person, including physical confrontation (he's bigger than you).

Person follows you and initiates physical contact while you are retrieving weapon.
You're already in a bad situation, no warning shot. Hammer him to break contact, and then if needed put one between the running lights.
My favorite story of his ended with "...and so he went out the back door in his bathrobe, flipped the AK to 'Afrikaner', and started hosing the baboons off his tennis court." - Tam
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308Mike
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Re: warning shots

Post by 308Mike »

If you are in possession of a firearm, you are responsible for any and all bullets leaving that gun while you are in control of it - this includes warning shots and ricochets. What if you fire into the floor and it hits the concrete slab and now ricochets into a wall, goes through and hits someone else? Fire into the ceiling, where's the bullet going to stop? Oops, it hit a nail and was deflected into another room, etc.

After that first shot in an enclosed space, you aren't going to be able to hear shit and there's going to be dust floating around in the air (especially if you fired into the ceiling where there's no benefit of carpet). What if he jumps on you after you fire the "warning shot" and has you pinned to the floor with his weight and now you CAN'T use the gun, and if he gets it from you, he might not only kill you, but others as well - WITH YOUR GUN.

If you YELL at him to back off (witnesses will hear it before hearing the shots) and he doesn't, and is still coming after you - BANG! BANG! And you keep shooting until the threat stops.

What's happened is HIS CHOICE, it's what HE'S FORCED upon you. You have a gun pointed at him, and you've warned him, if he doesn't believe you'll shoot, that's HIS poor judgment.
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

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