585 HE -- Cases In Production --

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MarkD
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Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by MarkD »

I know I've asked this before, but do these thumpers do anything that an existing cartridge doesn't? We already have heavy cartridges (various 41-45 caliber rifles) that will kill any animal on Earth, and we have super-heavies (500/600 nitro, 577 Tyranosaur,etc) that will STOP anything that's not covered in armor plate.

I get it, too much is never enough and more is always just right. "Just because" is a perfectly valid reason for owning something, I'm just wondering if, from a practical standpoint, these rifles actually accomplish something new. In other words, if I wanted to go hunt in Africa, is there a compelling reason to buy a rifle chambered in 585 HE instead of one of the other cartridges?
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HTRN
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by HTRN »

Mark, many of them are to take advantage of certain actions, brass that becomes available - The 550 RNS Magnum for instance, was designed to fit and feed in a common CZ Safari action(which at the time was the cheapest true mag action on the market) and cheap(relatively speaking) easily found "big" Weatherby Brass.
3
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hubel585
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 »

It is good case for Ruger #1s without weakening breachblock
shoulders, , many bolt actions, other falling blocks, and singleshots
where it has more power than many other cases in bolt actions.

And cases are being made by the barrels full. And being straight belted
cases last for dozens of reloadings. Most guns are being setup
for a fraction of other guns 50cal and over.

A related case to our 585 is the 24ga FH that has 3" chamber and
brass cases reworked 577NE cases, that we reduce the rim down
to .720"... the 24ga size rim...We make minimum chamber so that 24ga
plastic cases, 2.5" long just fit. And min chamber cuts down on a lot
of brass case expansion, which the wears cases out.

The barrels are same bore barrels as our 585 and the hollowbase minie
bullets work great in it, the ones that are .585", 440gr to 540gr.
Makes hairy 24ga gun for deer, etc. Be useful in shotgun only areas.
Guys on GB sells the .585" minies. And the brass cases, we don't have
to wait for them to be made.

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Here is what 585HE barrel and its monoblock look like before
screwing the barrel in.This one was 585HE, but process same if
monoblocking in 24ga FH...Ed

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hubel585
Posts: 169
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 »

Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...585 the longer one.
Both use same bullets/slugs, same caliber rifled barrels.
Different easy usages, 24ga FH is an easy setup in break
actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.

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Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
someone pulled out, and they wouldn't stay in tight after pulled.
Supposed to be for 20ga, But this sabot was a real loose fit
in 20ga, though made for 20ga, so I shrunk diameter of bottom rib,
fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE brass cases. A press
in tight fit gives good resistance for good ignition. real tight fit.

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Here is a 24ga/585 discarding sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal Muzzle loaders..
With 250 gr bullet in 585HE, hopped up load will go about mach 4.

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For ease of getting actions in stocks, I like composites.They are
strong. come colors, many can be painted with tough finish paints.
Usually need weight added for big bore use. But not too miuch..
An easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect, without being
too heavy if using that much lead. And coating keeps them quiet, and
we hold them in, with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed

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hubel585
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 »

First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.

If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide

next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed

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I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed

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hubel585
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 »

Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
or wide hollowpoint. .

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Here is pic of a Enfield with a jeweled and polished bolt, going
to be 585HE. In the back, Bolt jeweling and polishing done by the
great craftsmen, Bob Snapp, years ago.

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Picture comparing unfired and fired cases showing our tough cases
One on the left fired with 650gr at 2400 and base above belt
didn't hardly expand, Sized the top and reloaded/shot again.
And AHC will make guns now with our 585HE for any wanting
super top quality guns.They have some cases to give to guys
as a sample to show guys the case. Ed

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HTRN
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Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by HTRN »

Hubel, coupla questions about the 585HE

1)Did you ever get a "sporting use" letter from BATFE?
2)It uses standard 577 barrels, right? .585 groove?
3)Who makes dies? Cost?
4)Cost of brass?
5)Dimensions? I want to know what rim size, belt size, brass length and cartridge length, to figure out what it will fit in, mostly the CZ 550 magnum action
6)Load Data available, or does it involve starting with a scientific wild assed guess as a starting point for load development?
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
hubel585
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 »

Yes we have it registered as a sporting cartridge, and have the letter,
and made many copies if guys want them.

Yes it uses standard .585" groove, what are called 577NE barrels, and made by
Mcgowen here in US and we have a pile of them, $200 ea including shipping.
Being made by Allan and Grant Swan in AUS.

Three die set made for us by CH4D, they got some in stock and we
got a bunch here, $200.

Brass is $3.70 each in volume of 30 or more cases. Now we have a
package deal of a barrel, die set, with 100 cases including shipping for $750.

We have loads all tested with all kinds of powders from slow to fast,
with bullets that are jacketed, solids, turned, cast, from 350gr to 750gr.
Including the .585" lead Minie bullets, and 58cal sabots
with .452" and .458" bullets. We tested case with many slugs and
bullets for over 10 years. And have info to send out.

Case is 3.26" long. Rim and belt are .654", base ahead of belt is .634".
Mouth is .607". Average overall loaded length is 3.90" with hunting bullets same as
505 Gibbs. Any bolt action gun set up for Gibbs can feed ours. Like the
magnums action CZs, Rugers, Enfields, MRC PH, BBKs, Mag Mausers, etc.
Case holds 190gr ball powder under 650 gr bullet.

And is perfect for falling blocks, the Ruger #1 and FBWs. And others, and
we have them in break action somr of which with our cartridge
will outrun Trex in a bolt gun........Here is picture next to Gibbs,

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Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like, usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to 585 Nyati with G&A picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over with recoil,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.

The 577NE is an offshoot of 24 gauge caliber paper cases, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed
hubel585
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 »

Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.

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Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.

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Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,
and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed
hubel585
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:27 am

Re: 585 HE -- Cases In Production --

Post by hubel585 »

Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.

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I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....

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A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed

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