Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

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Netpackrat
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Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by Netpackrat »

So, I've posted about this rifle in various threads, but since I was finally able to get to the range yesterday with it, I thought I would make a new one for the report and an overview of the rifle.

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Rifle consists of an Aero Precision M4E1 upper in 300 Blackout with a 10" barrel, and a 9" M-Lok handguard. The bolt carrier group came from BCM, and for now it has just the plain AR charging handle. The registered SBR lower is a plain old mil spec PSA lower... If I had it to do over again, I would have bought the Aero lower, but at the time I bought my 2 AR lowers, I was getting them "just because" and had no real plan for what to do with them. In all likelihood, the PSA lower is probably the same lower made on the same equipment, with different markings.

It has just the plain PSA lower parts kit, mil spec carbine buffer tube, and Hogue furniture. I got an H2 buffer for it since I read that it would be better for running suppressed. I went with the Bobro BUIS because I wasn't sure at the time what optic I would get, and I wanted the lowest profile sights I could get. I was going to get metal BUIS no matter what, so taking that into account, the extra cost of the Bobros wasn't horrible. I had planned on just running the irons for now, while I decided what to do for an optic, and then I came upon a deal on the Nikon M300 BLK 1-6 power scope, that was too good to pass up. Wouldn't necessarily have been my first choice in scopes at its regular price, but at less than 1/3 the regular price, I jumped on it. A nice scope deserves a nice mount, so I sprung for a Bobro quick detach mount.

The muzzle device is a 51T Blackout flash hider from AAC that fits my SDN-6 can. As I posted in other threads, upon initial assembly it had an alignment problem, so I sent the upper back to Aero, and they put a new barrel on it. It still had the problem when I got it back, so I dug deeper and found that either the barrel threads are too long, or the threaded portion of the flash hider is too short, because it bottomed on the muzzle instead of the shoulder. I put two .030" alignment shims under the FH and alignment is good now. Between all of that, it took me until yesterday to get it to the range.

Bad news first... It wouldn't run supersonic ammo reliably unsuppressed, with either the H2 or the carbine buffer... I got a number of failures to eject. With the can installed, it was fine with either buffer, so I put the H2 back in and left it there, and ran with the can for the rest of the day. I also didn't get to do much with subs, because the #$%&^ fire department showed up and made them close the entire range due to a gas leak in the area. By the time they confirmed the location of the leak and called the utility, I was running out of time and had to leave anyway.

On to the good news:

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The Barnes black tip 110 grain hunting ammo, and the 120 grain UMC range/practice ammo both grouped at 1-1/4", and to about the same point of impact. I zeroed the scope for the 120 grain and am planning to use that for my primary supersonic load. The rest of the story with that ammo is it is actually loaded by Barnes with Barnes components, and then packaged in Remington UMC boxes. I've been buying it for $15/box on sale at Cabela's. I also tried some Hornady 110 grain v-max, but it was all over the paper at 100 yards.

I did get to fire a few subs. I shot a few rounds of the Hornady 208 grain, and the Remington 220 in the green and yellow boxes, both of which functioned OK and were extremely quiet. I found that the 3rd hash mark on the reticle (corresponds to 350 yards w/supers I think) was about right for the subs at 100 yards. I also have 3 boxes of the 220 grain UMC that I want to use up, but I haven't read much good about that ammo, and I wanted to put a few rounds of it unsuppressed through a target at closer range before sending it through the can, to make sure it doesn't tumble or anything. That was about the time the range officer ran in and called a range-wide cease fire, so I didn't get to do that. My plan also included moving down to the pistol range, setting up clays on the berm, and plinking at them with subs. But I didn't get to do that, either.
Last edited by Netpackrat on Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Netpackrat
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by Netpackrat »

Forgot to mention, upcoming goals include getting it to run unsuppressed, at least with supersonic ammo. Not sure why it isn't... A local guy I know has the same exact upper on a pistol lower, and hasn't reported any problems like that. I also want to get a better trigger, since the current one breaks at around 6.5 pounds. I may eventually do something different for a sling. The current one I made up from some plain 1.5" black webbing, sling swivels, and a couple of steel adjustment slides. I also don't like the way the rear swivel can turn 360 degrees in the mounting points in the Hogue stock. I have a Magpul sling mount in the front, and it limits how far the swivel can turn.

I went with the Lancer magazines because I read good things about them on the Blackout group, and because AlaskaTRX is running Pmags with his 5.56 AR. Hopefully using mags that are so obviously different will keep any of my 300s from ending up in his rifle. I also have a couple of the stamped Blackout specific mags that he got me for my birthday this year, plus a 10 rounder for bench work, which is what I used yesterday.
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"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
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JustinR
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by JustinR »

Wouldn't run supers unsuppressed? That's odd. Sounds like an undersized gas port maybe. At least it won't put as much pressure on the components while running suppressed. Glad you were able to take it for an abbreviated spin at least!

Did you put the gas block on, or did Aero when they replaced the barrel? If the alignment is off...
"The armory was even better. Above the door was a sign: You dream, we build." -Mark Owen, No Easy Day

"My assault weapon won't be 'illegal,' it will be 'undocumented.'" -KL
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Netpackrat
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by Netpackrat »

JustinR wrote:Wouldn't run supers unsuppressed? That's odd. Sounds like an undersized gas port maybe. At least it won't put as much pressure on the components while running suppressed. Glad you were able to take it for an abbreviated spin at least!

Did you put the gas block on, or did Aero when they replaced the barrel? If the alignment is off...
I don't know what Aero did other than replace the barrel. I didn't do anything to it besides sticking a BCG and charging handle in it, putting it in the lower, and hanging stuff off it.

I know a local guy who is running the same exact upper as a pistol, unsuppressed, so I am going to ping him, and see if he's had any issues, and if not, what he might be doing differently from me.

I also went and looked at the 5 pieces of brass that were mangled beyond re-use when the rifle malfed, and 4 of the 5 were Hornady, from the 110 grain V-max that didn't group worth a shit anyway. The fifth one was a Barnes from the UMC 120 grain, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was any better, because after getting a malf from the UMC, that was also about the time I put the can on, and left it on. Failing any special insights or smoking guns found, for now I plan to just clean and lube it, and run it a little to see if it improves any. If the problem doesn't clear up, then I will maybe look into enlarging the gas port.

Gunsmith friend basically said I told you so since he tried to warn me off about the Blackout cartridge in a semi. His exact words were "Prepare to chase your tail." From what I have read elsewhere, AAC uses a bigger gas port than Aero, and their uppers are supposed to run even subs unsuppressed. Which as you noted, means you are overgassed when suppressed. Not sure I want to go with an adjustable gas block though. I will settle for not running subs unsuppressed, if I can get it to run supers without the can.
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JustinR
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by JustinR »

It is odd about the Hornady ammo, because I've always had good luck with their brass and ammo. How was the brass mangled? Could you post some pictures? I'm almost wondering if it's a timing/ lockup issue or something with the spring/buffer.
"The armory was even better. Above the door was a sign: You dream, we build." -Mark Owen, No Easy Day

"My assault weapon won't be 'illegal,' it will be 'undocumented.'" -KL
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Netpackrat
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by Netpackrat »

Got wrapped up in the oven project, and forgot I was going to take a pic of the mangled cases. Basically the mouths are chewed up where the rifle tried to stuff them back in along with the next live round.

I finally got around to sending a follow-up reply to Aero Precision, which I will copy here:
I would like to follow up on this, because after receiving the upper back, I discovered what was actually causing the issue. Please pass it along to your technical department (with my apologies), because it could also apply to other customers who are trying to use an AAC suppressor and mount on one of your barrels or uppers.

Upon receiving the upper back with the new barrel installed, I reinstalled my AAC flash hider mount and suppressor, and upon checking alignment, I found about the same degree of misalignment as before, but in a different direction. Since the likelihood of receiving TWO barrels with misaligned threads seemed small, I started looking for other problems. I found that the thread lengths of the muzzle and the flash hider were such that the flash hider was bottoming against the muzzle face instead of at the thread shoulder. This was not readily apparent without taking measurements, because the design of AAC's flash hider incorporates a "deep socket" skirt that obscures the view of the interface between the flash hider and the shoulder.

I obtained timing shims from AAC that are normally meant for use with their muzzle brakes. With two of the .030" shims installed, the flash hider bottomed on the shoulder, and suppressor alignment was satisfactory. I have now shot this upper, and have been pleased with the accuracy so far. It prints 5 shots each of both the Barnes VOR-TX hunting ammo, and also the inexpensive UMC 120 grain into an inch and a quarter at 100 yards from a rest.

I'm sorry that I returned the upper to you and caused you additional effort and expense before discovering what the actual problem was, but thank you very much for the excellent service, and for going the extra mile in swapping the barrel out. It may be a good idea to check your barrel dimensions against AAC's threading specification and/or their muzzle devices. I don't know if the problem is with their specification or yours, but an incompatibility does exist. I have now tried 3 different AAC 51T mounts on my upper, and all bottom on the muzzle face instead of at the thread shoulder. Another user might combine one of your barrels and an AAC mount, assuming the fit to be good without checking, and suffer a baffle strike on their suppressor. Failure to check on their part would of course not constitute a defect on yours, but all the same I think it would be prudent to look into it.

Thank you again.

-XXX XXXXXXX
Anchorage, AK
My money is on AAC's thread specification not being the same as industry standard.
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Netpackrat
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by Netpackrat »

JustinR wrote:It is odd about the Hornady ammo, because I've always had good luck with their brass and ammo. How was the brass mangled? Could you post some pictures? I'm almost wondering if it's a timing/ lockup issue or something with the spring/buffer.
Picture of mangled cases:

Image

As you can see, these cases are mangled.
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BDK
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by BDK »

OK, so I just had a long conversation with a custom builder of higher end 300 blackouts.

Most suppressor increase back pressure by up to 40%. Hence why the gas regulation must be changed, if running with or without the suppressor.

There is one maker of suppressor who's back pressure is only about 6% increased - they are nifty, only extend the barrel length by about 3", the rest is under the hand guard.

Those do not require adjusting between running with or without a suppressor.

I believe he said they are about $1400 - they are the suppressors HK promotes, but I've forgotten the name.
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Netpackrat
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by Netpackrat »

I had to do something today that had me driving past the range, so I stopped in for about a half hour of shooting the 300. That wasn't much time, but I was able to shoot some different subs at clays on the berm at the pistol range. Nobody else was shooting there, so I took off my ears to get an idea for how quiet it really is. None of them were near "Hollywood quiet" but it was still quite comfortable shooting without hearing protection.

I shot a couple boxes of the UMC 220 that people on the 300 forum say is the worst Blackout ammo evah, and supposedly isn't reliably subsonic (it doesn't claim to be on the box, either), and to be honest, I couldn't hear any difference between it and the Remington green/yellow box 220 subsonic, or the Hornady 208.
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JustinR
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Re: Range Report: 300 Blackout SBR

Post by JustinR »

That is some SERIOUSLY mangled brass NPR, I've never seen anything like it. Is the buffer spring maybe weak and the brass is being pulled from the chamber before pressures drop to safe levels? Boy I dunno. *scratches head*
"The armory was even better. Above the door was a sign: You dream, we build." -Mark Owen, No Easy Day

"My assault weapon won't be 'illegal,' it will be 'undocumented.'" -KL
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