Arguing with Ogres

The place to talk about personal defense, preparedness, and survival; both armed and unarmed.
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D5CAV
Posts: 2428
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:48 am

Re: Arguing with Ogres

Post by D5CAV »

100% with NPR on this one.

Police operate with "sovereign immunity." If PO goes into situation and mistakenly shoots bearded middle aged guy with a tan who turns out to be one of the hostages, and doesn't engage young woman terrorist, too bad, so sad. It was an unfortunate bit of collateral damage in a tense situation.

If you or I make the same mistake, the best case is our assets are now transferred to the bearded middle aged guy's next of kin. Our worst case is we are doing hard time for 2nd degree murder.

What about WROL situation?

In that case, every person in our community is a militiaman and constable. If hostage taker is still alive, it's because the hostages aren't members of our community. As Clint said, "He should've armed himself ... "

But we are not without heart. We would explain to hostage taker that in our little community we don't have proscriptions against cruel and unusual punishment. If he lets the hostages go, we'll just hang him. For every hostage that dies, we'll have to work our imaginations to come up with ways to make his death last longer.

No need to risk any lives. Just grill some hot dogs, pop a few cold beers, and wait.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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evan price
Posts: 1912
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:24 am

Re: Arguing with Ogres

Post by evan price »

I never liked MadOgre, he seems too much fond of his own voice.

Anyway, as a "normal dude with a small pistol" my first order of the day is get my family out of there. If somebody elses' family gets out too, great. If I see Achmed the Jyhadi drawing down an overly-long, dramatically-aimed aimed shot from his AK at the head of a kneeling girl sobbing and clutching her dolly.... well goddamn it of course I will take the shot if its humanly possible.

Otherwise, I think the BEST POSSIBLE thing to do is make yourself NOT look like a random gun-toting terrorist- put away the heater or maybe the police might accidentally perforate YOU!- and keep your family safe, especially by getting some distance between you and a possible nail-bomb waiting outside the mall for the survivors!

Then, wait for people who are absolutely dripping with Qualified Immunity out of every orifice to take the situation under control- with possibly a few witness reports of location and quantity of bad guys as they go past. It's THIER job (for which they are paid well, with excellent benefits and perks like being able to have all the Class-III stuff they want and an open tab at the ammo vendor that somebody else pays for) to go in and save Buffy and Muffy and all the rest of the pumpkin-spice-latte-sipping yobbos in the mall. It's not MY job, or my MORAL RESPONSIBILITY to do so. If anyone is MORALLY responsible for Buffy & Muffy et al, is is they, themselves, for abrogating their own safety to the responsibility of people who, when seconds count, are merely minutes away.

If you want to draw Ogre's story out, if you are Mr. Clark of Tom Clancy fame, then by all means, silently stalk the mall and leave a trail of dead terrorists in your wake with maybe a black Ace of Spades pinned to their collars. All those Ninja skills the .gov taught you need to be paid off, right?
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Jericho941
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:30 am

Re: Arguing with Ogres

Post by Jericho941 »

evan price wrote:If you want to draw Ogre's story out, if you are Mr. Clark of Tom Clancy fame, then by all means, silently stalk the mall and leave a trail of dead terrorists in your wake with maybe a black Ace of Spades pinned to their collars. All those Ninja skills the .gov taught you need to be paid off, right?
Yeah, the whole scenario did seem rather Hollywood, or ghostwritten Clancy-esque. You know, after you've downed the villain, be sure to shove a football in his hands as he dies. :roll:
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