Choosing sides

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D5CAV
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Choosing sides

Post by D5CAV »

http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.c ... ment-65530

From my experience with LEOs of various flavors, I figure 50/50, as in 50% will aid in disarming Americans and 50% will oppose, but I'm an optimist.

Thoughts?
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Aglifter
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by Aglifter »

Eh, if handled properly, could be far more on our side.

The "bully/JBTs" will be like all bullies - bloody the nose, and they run. BUT, you will have to worry about "they hurt one of our own", stuff.

The correct answer is realize the weapon is not the enemy (in this case, the police would be the weapon), rather the head is the enemy.

IOW, don't waste your time fighting a defensive war, when you can conduct an irregular operation, targeted at leadership.

Just be sure to leave leadership some options to maintain their egos, or be prepared to annihilate it. Megalomaniacs will prefer destruction to "losing."

I would not count on cowardice from a megalomaniac - they will always view themselves as "too important" to risk, directly - but going out in a bunker, at the bitter end is more their style - if they can take the world with them, that would, probably, be their most preferred exit.

As an added bonus, you get to only/mostly attack people actually responsible for the BS, and the ones capable of surrendering.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

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Aglifter
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by Aglifter »

Now, what can really tilt those odds - and I think Chris is right - is to ensure you have good men as your sheriff/mayor/DA if you are in a state where you cannot be assured of a good man as AG or gov.

The American Revolution was lead by prominent men, many of whom were in government before it started.

It provides a fig leaf to permit the cowards to avoid a meat grinder, and those w. a conscience to feel that they are not, completely, disobeying their orders.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto
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PawPaw
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by PawPaw »

Dark thoughts here.

It also helps to have an oath that means something. My oath requires allegiance to the Constitution first and to the law second.
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Termite
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by Termite »

Suddenly the list idea doesn't sound so crazy, does it? ;)

Rate "0 to 10". With "10" meaning "This LEO worships the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment , would shoot his own LEO boss if said boss ordered him to begin firearms confiscation", and "0" meaning "looks forward to seizing your guns, would also like to kill you and ass-rape your 16 yr old daughter given the chance".
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."
Precision
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by Precision »

They may be dark thoughts, but just like when I decided to carry as close to 24/7, they were necessary thoughts. Our country (some parts more than others), are heading to a place where we (conservatives, citizens, free men) may well be on the direct receiving end of the jack boot of tyranny.

Having these dark thoughts ahead of that day is the only way to have a capable plan and a method of flipping the initiative.

I agree that decapitation is the best, most effective method. Although by the time the battle is enjoined, those types will have a personal bodyguard and be bunkered down and using the agency APC as their personal vehicle.

I hear rumors that sometimes dark thoughts help forestall dark days.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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PawPaw
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by PawPaw »

I'm reminded of two incidents that illustrate the difference in law enforcement between regions of the US.

Incident the First. My agency hired a deputy who had law enforcement experience from up-north. Her husband had been transferred down here with his employer and she sought employment in her field. She had all the correct credentials, and a verifiable work history, so they hired her. She field-trained during the summer, and just about the time hunting season approached, she was released to serve the public without a training officer riding shotgun. One afternoon I head this call on the radio. "112, dispatch. I have a citizen report of a man carrying a long gun, walking along Highway 165. I'm turning to investigate."

I immediately thought "WTF? That ain't a problem." Poor fellow was probably hunting and came out of the woods a distance from his vehicle.

Then I heard the shift supervisor come up on the radio. "Dispatch, 112. That isn't against the law. Leave him alone."

We had to re-train that gal so that she understood that carrying a gun isn't against the law in the state of Louisiana.

Incident the Second. During the Katrina Debacle, our agency responded to a request for assistance from the New Orleans PD. We sent some deputies down there to assist with the evacuation, and to provide a law-enforcement presence during the disaster. I didn't go, because I was assigned shelter duty, watching over the unfortunates that had been displaced. As most of these poor unfortunates had lost everything, and were uprooted from their homes and cultures, we tried to provide TVs in the shelter so that they could watch the news. I happened to be near a television when the chief of the NOPD (Eddie, hack, spit, Compass) made his "confiscate all the guns" announcement over live TV.

Our leadership in New Orleans talked with the Sheriff over the phone, and within the hour we had pulled all assistance from New Orleans. Our sheriff didn't want our deputies confiscating guns from anyone, for any reason during a disaster. As it turns out, Eddie (hack, spit) Compass has been discredited, and his announcement spurred legislation in the state that makes it illegal to confiscate weapons during a natural disaster. Later, the people of the state amended the state Constitution to make possessing a firearm a fundamental right.

I'm not concerned about where my agency stands on the Constitution in general and the 2nd Amendment in particular.
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Lokidude
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by Lokidude »

PawPaw wrote:Dark thoughts here.

It also helps to have an oath that means something. My oath requires allegiance to the Constitution first and to the law second.
Also requires honorable men, to whom an oath means something.
workinwifdakids wrote: We've thus far avoided the temptation to jack an entire forum.

But what the hell.
Standing for Truth, Justice, and the American Way!
Aesop
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by Aesop »

Location, location, location.

Coastal CA: Into ze trains, scum! will be about 85-95%, based purely on direct personal observation.
Hinterlands: Just about 50/50, because far too many of them transitioned there, after tiring of the urban side of CA, but they brought all their jackbooted Blue Thug mentality and bad habits with them, and the generation of officers that used to restrain such hubris gets scarcer and scarcer by the week.

Unless they show up in a Duck Hunter t-shirt and bowflage cap and announce their defection, my baseline assumption is that if things get sporty, they're collaborators and targets until proven innocent.

The saving grace, as in all cases, is that they are vastly outnumberd by both retired cops from a better time, and separated and retired veterans, all with better armament, and a firmer grasp on marksmanship fundamentals.
Nota bene that with the full resources of the state behind him and his face on everything from hourly TV news to milk cartons, it took some 50,000 LEOs hereabouts 5 days' time to bring lone actor dipshit Dorner to heel, and he wasn't a particularly intelligent exemplar of the opposition, being notably too stupid to stay in LAPD even as a preferred minority (a bar so low that it's difficult to measure with existing technology), and certifiably batshit crazy. Despite all that he still outscored them in the final box score totals.
cf. North Hollywood Bank Shootout, and L.A. Riots

So unless they plan on advancing their cause over a period of decades, they will become as scarce as Redskin fans at the Dallas Cowboys Stadium, and last about as long as a box of donuts at a TSA convention without popular support, which currently runs at an all-time low in most locales.
Beating homeless guys to death for shits and giggles, ventilating anyone in a pickup truck, and tasering people with .40SW, just for three easy examples, tends to get you that rep.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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blackeagle603
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Re: Choosing sides

Post by blackeagle603 »

Paw Paw's examples are unthinkable in CA. About brings tearsof joy to my eyes to hear those anecdotes though.
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story
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