The Gun Counter

I thought this was postponed indefinitely?

Guess not.

Anecdotal evidence, but I was just talking to a guy the other day that loves his P320 so maybe it is pretty decent?

I know several stories mentioned the Army's desire for a cartridge more powerful than 9mm, which has led to much speculation about .45, .357SIG, etc.

I've seen other sources stating the winning selection would be chambered in 9mm.

So, if in 9, a repeat of the M-1 Garand, which was re-worked from it's original .276 Pedersen to the much stockpiled .30-06?

Or a case of wanting something that could eat a steady diet of +P or +P+ ammo, meeting the "more powerful than 9mm (NATO)" requirement?

Although I was dealing with air-to-surface munitions, I was often on distro for anything dealing with weapons. One of the reports (late 80's) dealt with M9's cracked slides or even self disassembly in use. The reports I saw limited the actual problems to weapons used by SpecOps guys who loaded with hot Subgun ammo to cut down on their logistics issues (same ammo for both guns). I know Beretta made several mods over the years, but don't think they ever got the pistol hold up on a steady diet of hot ammo. Maybe the Sig will address that?

Never fired a Sig, and never owned a Beretta (too clunky to me, and the safety worked backwards from how JMB, peace be unto him, intended ) so not enough personal experience to make an educated guess.

randy wrote:... and the safety worked backwards from how JMB, peace be unto him, intended )

FYI: If you hold your thumb hard against the slide and shove down and forward on the sloped rear section of the Beretta safety / decock lever (same motion as on a 1911), the lever will actually flip up and off Safe. Had that "Aha!" moment on the range one day, and it lessened my hatred for the M9 just a smidge. May not be how they designed it, but 1911 practice muscle memory is still applicable, so less stress over futzing it up if I ever really need to NOT eff up...

g-man wrote:

randy wrote:... and the safety worked backwards from how JMB, peace be unto him, intended )

FYI: If you hold your thumb hard against the slide and shove down and forward on the sloped rear section of the Beretta safety / decock lever (same motion as on a 1911), the lever will actually flip up and off Safe. Had that "Aha!" moment on the range one day, and it lessened my hatred for the M9 just a smidge. May not be how they designed it, but 1911 practice muscle memory is still applicable, so less stress over futzing it up if I ever really need to NOT eff up...

I was never able to get that to work reliably, but then as I said I limited exposure to the M9. Most of my .mil handgun time was on revolvers.

Worst scores I ever turned in on .mil handguns was with the Beretta. Passed the Army quals with a 1911, and did aircrew quals with K-frame .38 Specials. (Model 15s, I think.) Shot Expert with all of them, but with the Beretta, "it was a near-run thing."

Is the debate more that the 9mm NATO ball is garbage vs civilian +P, JHPs, current ammo?

Yeah yeah, can't use it because of the Haig... perhaps it is time to revisit that decision.

IOW, Army Selects Absolute Garbage for Idiot Reasons, Water is Wet

scipioafricanus wrote:Is the debate more that the 9mm NATO ball is garbage vs civilian +P, JHPs, current ammo?

Yeah yeah, can't use it because of the Haig... perhaps it is time to revisit that decision.

Honestly, I don't think anyone actually expected to use 9mm in anger has deployed with FMJ in decades. Even in Air Force basic training circa 2008 they talked about hollowpoints being a legal gray area "and if they are legal and the mission requires them, the Air Force will issue them to you."

There's pretty much zero point in this type of modularity, which was the excuse for awarding the contract to a company that hasn't produced a quality firearm in over a decade.

It's a sidearm. "Caliber is dictated by the mission" my ass, not when it comes to pistols.

I don't think the US is a party to that particular protocol of the Hague Conventions anyway.