U.S. military and intelligence undermining Obama on Syria

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TheArmsman
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Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:59 pm

Re: U.S. military and intelligence undermining Obama on Syri

Post by TheArmsman »

PawPaw wrote:When I was a rookie trooper, I was taught that the "obeying orders defense" died at Nuremberg.

Twice during my career, I was forced to say; "With respect sir, I will require written guidance on that order so that when the Convening Authority meets, I can provide an affirmative defense."

In both cases, after due consideration, those orders were rescinded immediately. The last time I said that was in 1989. I'm surprised that officers don't say it routinely under this administration.
I said much the same to a 2ndLt mustanger, dealing with ComSec material. He got so mad, he threw a hammer at my head. As we rolled out the entrance to the CP tent, there was the 1stSgt and the CO. I never had an asschewing like that one, then told not to do it again, and good work. The Lt resigned his commission.
When death is inevitable, style counts.

Survival trumps programming.
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Kommander
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:13 am

Re: U.S. military and intelligence undermining Obama on Syri

Post by Kommander »

Part of the situation is that the up and out system has created a catch 22 for these guys. If they want to keep their position and have any chance at all of making any sort of improvement then they have to play the game. I'm sure that to an extent this kind of situation has always existed but it seem to have reached an unsustainably high level as of late. I think it would be great if everyone with a star told the administration to either fix the DoD or find new generals but at this point we all know that's not going to happen. I would like to think that at least among junior officers looking out for ones carear and acting with integrity, courage, and duty are not mutually exclusive, such as making sure that the material your signing for is actually there when taking over a platoon. Honestly I'm hoping my brother gets out before and rather than comprimising his ethics to keep his comission.
Aesop
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:17 am

Re: U.S. military and intelligence undermining Obama on Syri

Post by Aesop »

The reason for any leadership in the military, at any level, but especially for officers, is to exercise precisely those character traits that got you the "special trust and confidence" of your superiors in the first place, relying on one so chosen to exercise integrity, courage, and so on.
If promotion carries with it the unspoken requirement to suborn those exact principles in pursuit of one's career, the answer isn't that this military should have trouble finding just generals, it's that they should have trouble finding corporals.
It is that bad, by hundreds of accounts, and yet the proof of the want of actual leadership is that there haven't been mass resignations.
Worse, there haven't been any resignations.

Hence my suggestion for the remedies above.

At this point it's largely widespread ignorance, institutional inertia, and simple laziness that have probably kept the few relatively untainted leaders from staging a coup in self defense.
I've seen no evidence of anything higher holding anyone back, or impelling them to speak out where and when it counts.
And much like the 3% of Frenchmen who actively joined and fought in the Resistance, some pitifully small number inside the .mil are probably waging a guerrilla war from the inside, but not nearly enough to make much difference.
Most of what's left is a military every bit as hollow as the bad old days post-Vietnam, shredded and mutilated and worn out by a decade-plus of unending and pointless nation-building wars, except without much of any of the leadership deep down it enjoyed in the mid-'70s, which became the nucleus of the 1980-1990 world-beating machine we used to have. We have the thinnest Army and the smallest Navy in nearly 100 years, an Air Force lost and wandering around, and the whole saddled with more time and budget spent on politically correct horseshit than performing their missions to any degree of adequacy.
The .mil has been getting fucked up and fucked over for 25 years non-stop, and it's going to take at least twice that long to fix it, if anyone even notices and sets out to do it, which is anything but certain at this point.

This current rot is going to cost us many lives in the next conflicts, for a generation or more, and it may very well even cost us the nation anyways.
And the very weakness of this current situation is what invites and guarantees that those conflicts will transpire.

That is all simply inexcusable.

And hoping today's second lieutenants and ensigns will someday, somehow save us from a bumper crop of worthless generals and admirals is some pretty weak tea.

Anybody looking for Obama's actual legacy, there you go with Chapter One.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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