Syrian Fishbed on a bombing run...

[NVGdude]

No aircraft that specializes in SEAD is left in USAF inventory.

Correct. It's done with the F-16CJ birds.

I always thought the Spark Vark loaded with about 6 or 8 HARMs would have been the ideal SEAD platform.

[D5CAV]

According to this, small arms fire has shot down more US aircraft than all the sophisticated AA systems:

http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviati ... efence.htm

Case in point: Vietnam

[Aesop]

Thus proving the person who penned that can lie with statistics.

From the Wright brothers until Vietnam, there weren't any "sophisticated AA systems", and during Vietnam itself only crude versions of them. While those first and second generation missiles and such took a heavy toll around Hanoi and Haiphong in the day, it was nothing to how many Dshk's etc. took out Hueys travelling low and slow in any of thousands of LZs over the course of 8 years of jungle war, which kind of skews the statistics just a wee bit.

This would be about like saying that up through 1600, most battlefield deaths were caused by blades and blunt instruments, and that gunpowder was just a fad.

Conversely, the Soviet experience was that Afghanistan was tolerable when all they had to worry about was the occasional .50 cal, but that once we handed the Taliban cratefuls of Stingers and a hunting license, the war wasn't worth the trouble in about 6 months, because Hinds and MiGs couldn't be produced fast enough to offset their losses.

After 1980, we ruthlessly suppressed everything but MGs and MANPADs, because those latter can be and are frequently sited amidst heavy civilian concentrations, and cluster bombing neighborhoods full of women and kids looks bad on CNN and Al Jazeera (exactly as it did in 1972 on SeeBS) just to take out a Dshk or a guy or two with an SA-7, thus leaving MGs and nuisance levels of gunfire nearly the only thing shooting at our guys and planes, for the most part. The Soviet and Chicoms being unwilling to supply Strellas/Gremlins et al to Al Queda, and risk an annoying number of them finding their way to Muslim separatist groups in both countries, and making an appearance on the approaches to the Sheremetyevo or Beijing Capital International airports a couple of months down the road. Which, not coincidentally, is the exact same reason we weren't passing out Stingers wholesale in Benghazi, and aren't handing them out in Syria. For every 10 we distributed, 3 would be used there, and 7 would show up in the five boroughs in the pattern for La Guardia and JFK, or worse, outside Whiteman, Tonopah, or Langley, and take out an irreplaceable billion-dollar B-2, or an F-117 or F-22, all flying unarmed and stupid over friendly territory.

That's what happens when you only look under the streetlight for your lost coin because the light is better.

[Jericho941]

or worse, outside Whiteman, Tonopah, or Langley, and take out an irreplaceable billion-dollar B-2, or an F-117 or F-22, all flying unarmed and stupid over friendly territory.

Not really, no.

[Aesop]

Right. Because they never fly training missions or break in new pilots.

[Jericho941]

Right. Because they never fly training missions or break in new pilots.

Training sorties, you say? New pilots?!


It's almost as if I'm dismissive of all these factors because I'm aware of them, and they're completely irrelevant.

For one thing, there hasn't been a wannabe martyr yet who could hit a plane with the type of MANPADS that a snowball's chance in hell of seeing and hitting any of those. They couldn't even get results with them against helicopters back when we thought giving them to the Afghans was a pretty neat idea, so we gave them Stingers instead. Our jets don't also fly nice, lackadaisical approach patterns for passenger comfort. There isn't any room for the Inshallah School of Marksmanship here.

When it comes to MANPADS, the pilot's relative experience only matters so much as whether or not he's got the relevant system equipped and turned on. Either the jet detects the launch and spits out flares, or it doesn't, and the missile does whatever it was already going to do.

"But what about training missions where they're not carrying any weapons!?"

There's a reason why we don't stand under countermeasure dispensers when launching or recovering training sorties, and not just because it's a good habit. It's because they're almost always loaded. The bullets, bombs and sharp objects might be ballast, but the flares are real.

If it ever happens, it'll probably look more like this.

[Aesop]

I'm glad to hear they tend to leave the bread box fully stocked.

...as whether or not he's got the relevant system equipped and turned on. Either the jet detects the launch and spits out flares, or it doesn't, and the missile does whatever it was already going to do.

If the douchebags get lucky once, and dump one single B-2, we eat a $2B loss and a 5% decrease in their operational capability forever.
"We didn't think they could ever do that..." is a poor answer in front of the board afterwards.

Obviously a fully fueled 747 taking off over a city is a phenomenally softer target, but even on 9/11 the not-so-smart bombs sent 25% of their effort against the defense establishment.
And which calculus seems to be reason enough not to hand out Stingers or anything similar overseas, because no one wants to crap shoot that to no good end.

[Yogimus]

So one of our "safety" officers thought it would be fun to see if the security guys were speeding around the flightline, and ran some laser/radar around a few B-52-s. Next thing we know, flares the size of pringles cans started bouncing every which way, as if the bomber shat out the 4th circle of hell.

[Jericho941]

So one of our "safety" officers thought it would be fun to see if the security guys were speeding around the flightline, and ran some laser/radar around a few B-52-s. Next thing we know, flares the size of pringles cans started bouncing every which way, as if the bomber shat out the 4th circle of hell.

Huh. Thaaaaat shouldn't have been physically possible.

Then again, I'm not a B52 guy. But on the aircraft I know, that requires a spectacularly stupid chain of events to already be underway on the aircraft, and RWR shouldn't even waste time on radar guns.

[Netpackrat]

Hope nobody was hurt by that. I think I would have enjoyed watching, from a distance.