German Officer to Head US Army Europe

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rightisright
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German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by rightisright »

http://www.armytimes.com/article/201407 ... hief-staff

What do you .mil types think of this?
Aesop
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by Aesop »

He isn't "heading" anything.
Chief of staff is the equivalent of "adjutant".
He's a brigadier (one star).
The commander of USAREUR is three-star Lt. Gen. Campbell.
The only Chief of Staff who commands anything is the US Army Chief of Staff, a full four-star general (and five stars, when we get a full world war mobilization on).

FTR, a German general would command USAREUR just after hell froze over, and Mohammed In The Box announces their new BaconBurger.
Last edited by Aesop on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
rightisright
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by rightisright »

See? That is why I come here for cut thru the BS .mil stuff.

A few friends posted about this as a "travesty" on Facebook. More than one a veteran.
Aesop
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by Aesop »

Yeah. Some people pay attention to stuff above their pay grade, and a whole lot don't.
This is mainly only distressing to some shiny new US Army brigadier general who wishes he got that posting, rather than making it an ally integration post.
So now he'll be staying in Ft. Pigknuckle, CONUS, or going someplace nastier.

The Germans don't have a rep for promoting jackasses to general, so it's probably a good thing overall, unless we get some common sense and decide to deploy the entire 7th Army back to the States in the first place.
The German guy is going to be the equivalent of Col. Mandrake to Gen. Jack T. Ripper.
He'll basically be dealing with US Army colonels and such, so most troops, even in the HQ, will hardly notice.
You genuflect to stars in the .mil as a rule, or your retire. It really doesn't matter at that level whose army they belong to.

Set your friends straight gently. Especially on their reading comprehension skills:
As the major staff assistant to USAREUR commander Lt. Gen. Donald Campbell, Laubenthal will synchronize the command’s staff activities much as American predecessors have in the past. -from the Army Times article in question
8-)
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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g-man
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by g-man »

Fairly standard in the regionally aligned commands. IIRC one of the 2-buttons at USARPAC (under the 4-star US commander) is an Aussie, and the CoS at I-Corps is a 1-star Canuck. Both genuinely good dudes. The Canadian was pretty funny when I briefed him on the 25ID resilience program- "I don't exactly understand why the US Army is worried about this, since you've got some of the most resilient Soldiers I've ever worked with, but go ahead with the brief..."
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Langenator
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by Langenator »

Given that the Prussians pretty much invented the military staff in its modern form, having a German as a chief of staff shouldn't be a bad thing. In addition to other foreign generals in U.S. commands mentioned previously, I know XVIII Airborne Corps has a Canadian general assigned (not sure of his position), and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find British and other allied naval officers in Atlantic naval commands, or Koreans at HQ, 8th Army.

Just to correct: the Chief of Staff of the Army doesn't actually command anything. He has no command authority over any troops. He is the chief military advisor to the Secretary of the Army, and the chief Army advisor to the SecDef.

Command authority over all U.S. Army troop units, except a few specific units assigned to USFK, Alaskan Command, and EUCOM, belongs to CG, Forces Command (FORSCOM) (until this week, it was GEN Allyn, just confirmed as VCSA; not sure who is replacing him), until those forces are sent to one of the joint geographic combatant commands (EUCOM, PACOM, CENTCOM, etc) and their subordinate Army Service Component Commands (USAREUR, USARPAC, ARCENT, etc) for operational deployment. Command authority for Army forces deployed inside the United States (for disaster response, as an example) would be assigned to NORTHCOM via ARNORTH.

The other services function similarly.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
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Vonz90
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by Vonz90 »

Langenator wrote:Given that the Prussians pretty much invented the military staff in its modern form, having a German as a chief of staff shouldn't be a bad thing. In addition to other foreign generals in U.S. commands mentioned previously, I know XVIII Airborne Corps has a Canadian general assigned (not sure of his position), and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find British and other allied naval officers in Atlantic naval commands, or Koreans at HQ, 8th Army.

Just to correct: the Chief of Staff of the Army doesn't actually command anything. He has no command authority over any troops. He is the chief military advisor to the Secretary of the Army, and the chief Army advisor to the SecDef.

Command authority over all U.S. Army troop units, except a few specific units assigned to USFK, Alaskan Command, and EUCOM, belongs to CG, Forces Command (FORSCOM) (until this week, it was GEN Allyn, just confirmed as VCSA; not sure who is replacing him), until those forces are sent to one of the joint geographic combatant commands (EUCOM, PACOM, CENTCOM, etc) and their subordinate Army Service Component Commands (USAREUR, USARPAC, ARCENT, etc) for operational deployment. Command authority for Army forces deployed inside the United States (for disaster response, as an example) would be assigned to NORTHCOM via ARNORTH.

The other services function similarly.
This should be shocking to nobody. We regularly have O's in foreign staffs and vice-versa.

http://www.isaf.nato.int/leadership.html

Just to note the obvious, about half of the command staff at ISAF is other NATO flag officers. The Chief of staff is a Turk and the Deputy is a German.

Meh
Aesop
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by Aesop »

Langenator wrote:Just to correct: the Chief of Staff of the Army doesn't actually command anything. He has no command authority over any troops. He is the chief military advisor to the Secretary of the Army, and the chief Army advisor to the SecDef.
Just to correct your correction, the Army CoS does command anything. It's just that his command is over the minions assigned to his staff at the Pentagon.
But no, he doesn't command the unified commands, whose chain of command runs direct from senior commander straight to SecDef.
He merely sets service-wide policy, and commands the assistants, which are invariably the people who decide whether you get people, machines, fuel, and funds to do what the civilian leadership thinks you ought to do, and enforces how you think you'll do it.

And in functional practice, woe betide the unified commander who treats his service chief as if he were merely some ceremonial pony.
When his whip cracks, careers end.
The latitude that the service chiefs and SecDef give them for supervising day-to-day operations is functionally just short of the actual authority to issue orders to the subordinate commands, which happens the same way anyways, except with the helpful preparatory phrase, "The Secretary of Defense directs...".

Civilians run the military in this country.
The service chiefs are the neck that turns the head.
And prior to 1958, they were in fact God Almighty on earth, as far as the rest of the service was concerned.
(Notably, we haven't won a war since that change.)
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
Langenator
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Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by Langenator »

Aesop wrote:
Langenator wrote:Just to correct: the Chief of Staff of the Army doesn't actually command anything. He has no command authority over any troops. He is the chief military advisor to the Secretary of the Army, and the chief Army advisor to the SecDef.
Just to correct your correction, the Army CoS does command anything. It's just that his command is over the minions assigned to his staff at the Pentagon.
But no, he doesn't command the unified commands, whose chain of command runs direct from senior commander straight to SecDef.
He merely sets service-wide policy, and commands the assistants, which are invariably the people who decide whether you get people, machines, fuel, and funds to do what the civilian leadership thinks you ought to do, and enforces how you think you'll do it.

And in functional practice, woe betide the unified commander who treats his service chief as if he were merely some ceremonial pony.
When his whip cracks, careers end.
The latitude that the service chiefs and SecDef give them for supervising day-to-day operations is functionally just short of the actual authority to issue orders to the subordinate commands, which happens the same way anyways, except with the helpful preparatory phrase, "The Secretary of Defense directs...".

Civilians run the military in this country.
The service chiefs are the neck that turns the head.
And prior to 1958, they were in fact God Almighty on earth, as far as the rest of the service was concerned.
(Notably, we haven't won a war since that change.)
We didn't really win Korea, either...and neither Marshall nor King commanded any troops in Europe or the Pacific in WWII.
Fortuna Fortis Paratus
Aesop
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Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:17 am

Re: German Officer to Head US Army Europe

Post by Aesop »

Exactly. :D
Because Henry Stimson and Frank Knox were such military geniuses. :lol:
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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