http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/10/travel/pa ... ight-trnd/
A lot of hubbub about this. While the Airline did not handle this well, I am going to throw most of the blame on the passenger. The plane is not your property, if they ask you to get off the plane, get off the freaking plane. Don't argue with the airport security guys, they are just going to drag you off anyway (which they did).
So you are a Doctor, so you bought a ticket. The ticket itself says you can get bumped. If you don't know that, you are an idiot. Act like an adult, get off the plane, then complain and get compensated. Yes it sucks, life sucks sometimes but it does not mean you have the right to act like a three year old throwing a tantrum.
MERGED United Passenger Kicked Off/NO FIGHTING
- Vonz90
- Posts: 4731
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
Bumped does not traditionally mean ejected from the plane after boarding and being seated uneventfully. Just FYI, United itself is previously on record as saying that, once someone is in a seat, they are in for the duration and not to be removed. This is not an uncommon or unreasonable expectation.
The airline compounded failure upon failure, and they will rightfully suffer.
This was not overbooking, this was the airline realizing at the last second it was going to be short a flight crew in Louisville because another crew had clocked out.
They decided to remove paying passengers from the flight to make room for a replacement crew sent to Louisville.
When their offering didn't get enough takers (mind you, they're doing this after everyone was boarded and seated) they chose someone to 'volunteer' to get off. When he declined to have someone volunteer for him is when things went off the rails.
Mind you, they *chose* to, instead of nominating another 'volunteer' (look up volunteer some time), to escalate to force, to impose their will, because someone had the nerve to decline to 'volunteer'. This is very qualitatively different from someone being removed for breaking laws or endangering others. This is someone being compelled to obey (spit!) for declining to 'volunteer' to be 'refused boarding' after already boarding and being seated (ah the irony).
As many people have pointed out, Chicago to Louisville is not a very long drive. Would have been quicker and cheaper to rent the substitute crew a car. Or a limo, with a driver, so they could rest in the car.
I know many folks travelling on business who have done exactly that when flight arrangements didn't work out perfectly.
But anyway, the airline folks on scene decided to throw their weight around, and play 'respect my authoritay'.
As I said, it will cost them dearly. Rightly so.
The airline compounded failure upon failure, and they will rightfully suffer.
This was not overbooking, this was the airline realizing at the last second it was going to be short a flight crew in Louisville because another crew had clocked out.
They decided to remove paying passengers from the flight to make room for a replacement crew sent to Louisville.
When their offering didn't get enough takers (mind you, they're doing this after everyone was boarded and seated) they chose someone to 'volunteer' to get off. When he declined to have someone volunteer for him is when things went off the rails.
Mind you, they *chose* to, instead of nominating another 'volunteer' (look up volunteer some time), to escalate to force, to impose their will, because someone had the nerve to decline to 'volunteer'. This is very qualitatively different from someone being removed for breaking laws or endangering others. This is someone being compelled to obey (spit!) for declining to 'volunteer' to be 'refused boarding' after already boarding and being seated (ah the irony).
As many people have pointed out, Chicago to Louisville is not a very long drive. Would have been quicker and cheaper to rent the substitute crew a car. Or a limo, with a driver, so they could rest in the car.
I know many folks travelling on business who have done exactly that when flight arrangements didn't work out perfectly.
But anyway, the airline folks on scene decided to throw their weight around, and play 'respect my authoritay'.
As I said, it will cost them dearly. Rightly so.
Last edited by Greg on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
- Netpackrat
- Posts: 13986
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
They have graduated from breaking guitars to breaking faces...
Selling something you have no intention or ability to deliver is referred to as "fraud" in most locales. Bumping paying passengers in order to accommodate non-revs is to the best of my knowledge unheard of in the rest of the airline industry (especially once the flight has been boarded), and I think this specific incident has to be the shittiest thing I have ever heard of an airline intentionally doing to a passenger. I hope it costs them plenty.
Selling something you have no intention or ability to deliver is referred to as "fraud" in most locales. Bumping paying passengers in order to accommodate non-revs is to the best of my knowledge unheard of in the rest of the airline industry (especially once the flight has been boarded), and I think this specific incident has to be the shittiest thing I have ever heard of an airline intentionally doing to a passenger. I hope it costs them plenty.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati
"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
- dfwmtx
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
Really weird:there's a smear article on the doctor in the U.K. daily Mail online, insinuating the doctor has anger management issues, and used to pay for gay sex with a patient with prescription drugs. Just seems weird a a UK paper has a smear campaign article on an American citizen (presumably) on an American plane company on an entirely American route. And less than 24hours after the news broke.
"Arms are honor; slaves have neither."
"I am Chaos, I am alive...and I tell you that you are free!" -Eris Discordia
"I am Chaos, I am alive...and I tell you that you are free!" -Eris Discordia
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
The fact that the airline crew on scene as well as the airline CEO after the fact, has absolutely no problem with a paying passenger (I.e. *customer*) being beaten, not for doing anything wrong, but for merely being *inconvenient*, is very interesting.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
- Netpackrat
- Posts: 13986
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
I heard that the new United app for your phone will support drag and drop...
Also that the Pentagon is going to contract with them to remove Assad.
Also that the Pentagon is going to contract with them to remove Assad.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati
"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
The Empire is having them handle all future negotiations with wildcat mining colonies from now on.Netpackrat wrote:I heard that the new United app for your phone will support drag and drop...
Also that the Pentagon is going to contract with them to remove Assad.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
I'll be flying on United in a few weeks, NJ to FL to go on a cruise. I hope United has gotten enough bad publicity over this that it won't be an issue, but if it comes to it I won't be the only one bleeding afterward.....
- Jericho941
- Posts: 5180
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
United screwed up and their policy won't protect them, because they violated it. It's one thing to say you can be denied boarding, as the ticket and their publicly-available policy does, and another to say "whoops never mind we're gonna let you on and then have the cops pull you off the plane because we made a scheduling error."
Last edited by Jericho941 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- randy
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off
Haven't got time to run down and confirm (feel free), but I heard a report on the radio while driving between meetings that the Dr had left the aircraft after being "volunteered", and then had snuck back onto the plane when they brought on the employees.
If true, that adds some mitigation (not justification) to using force to remove him from the aircraft.
Doesn't excuse any of United's stupidity. Lack of adequate personnel management/logistics skills on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
If true, that adds some mitigation (not justification) to using force to remove him from the aircraft.
Doesn't excuse any of United's stupidity. Lack of adequate personnel management/logistics skills on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".