MERGED United Passenger Kicked Off/NO FIGHTING

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skb12172
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off

Post by skb12172 »

This ^^^

Maybe make this thread part 1?
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.
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308Mike
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Re: UA Passenger kicked off

Post by 308Mike »

skb12172 wrote:This ^^^

Maybe make this thread part 1?
I would if I could, and if I could do so competently. The last time I tried to merge a couple of threads it became a mess. Thankfully, that was a few years ago, so most of you probably don't even remember it. I'd prefer to let one of the higher-ranked admins perform this task. ;) ;) ;) :oops: :oops:
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.

I remain pessimistic given the way BATF and the anti gun crowd have become tape worms in the guts of the Republic. - toad
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randy
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Re: MERGED United Passenger Kicked Off/NO FIGHTING

Post by randy »

Thread merged. The forum software merges topics with posts being in chronological order no matter what thread was first.

Each individual post retains the title of their original thread (except for the first one, which I edited to create the topic's merged title) , so that should help keep track of what went where originally.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
Greg
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Re: United - discuss principles, no fighting?

Post by Greg »

Kommander wrote:I am pretty sure that for whatever reason our hero decided that this was the hill he wanted to die on. Seems to be working out for him at the moment.
Posted this to FB, in response to someone whose attitude was 'you do what you're told or you get what's coming to you' (yes, it's an authoritarian married gay man) and others who disagreed, but fairly incoherently.
In fairness, I agree with some of that. A fight with the police never ends *well*.

The problem is with people who seem to automatically assume authority is, by definition, right.

Oh hell no.

In this case, authority, in the form of cops, are wrong all the time. Not every time, not even most of the time. But there are a lot of cops, a lot of interactions with them, and interactions where the cops are wrong happen regularly.

But in practical terms, the ideal way to correct them is in court, after. Again, in practical terms, even when you *know* they are in the wrong they will still have (guaranty, they will do whatever it takes for this to be the case) superiority of force, so you have to remember that disputing the issue (whatever issue) *now* instead of in court later, is essentially, to at least some extent, voluntary martyrdom. And you have to be prepared to accept that.
Once there are cops in your face *telling* you to do something, even (especially) if that something is absolutely wrong.... Things have already gone off the rails and there is nothing you can do to 'fix' it. You can only stage a protest, to whatever degree. Then hope you survive. After which you or your heirs recruit some nasty fucking attack lawyers.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby

If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
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randy
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Re: MERGED United Passenger Kicked Off/NO FIGHTING

Post by randy »

Goes back to what my dad used to tell me: "On the side of the road it's "Yes Sir, No Sir, Thank you sir", and if you're right and he's wrong, then we'll take him out in court".

Or to paraphrase the old hippy slogan: Fighting with the police doesn't determine who's right, but who's left standing, and it almost is never the non-cop in the situation.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
BDK
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Re: MERGED United Passenger Kicked Off/NO FIGHTING

Post by BDK »

OK, so wading into a room of cranky toddlers with machine guns...

To paraphrase Ron White, "I cannot tell you how many cops it will take to kick your ass, but I can tell you how many they will use."

The doctor was deliberately showing his ass. And, his suit will, probably, be against Chicago PD, not United. (Whether or not United was right to demand his removal from the plane, the physical harm is on the police. And, there may be different standards for force, given it was a plane, and not a yard, on which he was trespassing. However, the universal adage applies, "All governmental force, is lethal force, if you resist enough.")

United does seem to be poorly run - at least, in the Southeast. Hence why I usually fly Delta/why I flew Continental in TX, when it existed.

Airtravel is an industry which needs a ground-up rework.
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Catbird
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Re: MERGED United Passenger Kicked Off/NO FIGHTING

Post by Catbird »

I am by no means a frequent flyer. I have flown commercial perhaps 50-60 times in my life. I was once belted in my seat waiting for them to close the door and push back when they announced that the flight was overbooked and asked for volunteers to take the next flight. I think the ask went: next flight out, next flight plus hotel room, next flight, hotel, and $200 voucher, and finally next flight, hotel, and $400 cash. This is where they got takers. I was in the Army on my way home for Christmas. I decided at the beginning that it was extremely unlikely that they would get to my price before they got other volunteers. I just wanted to go home.

I have also had the opportunity to take a bump offer. I was in Key West with my girlfriend visiting her mother. I was flying home by myself on a Saturday morning, but I didn't have to be back at work until Monday afternoon. I got a $400 Delta voucher and three extra hours in Key West. I went a couple miles down the road to a beach side restaurant and watched girls playing volleyball as I drank gin and tonics. Also, I had already checked my bag on the previous flight so it was waiting for me at baggage claim when I arrived.

The point of all this is that the airlines always start out asking for people to volunteer for nothing, when everyone knows that the pot will always get sweeter. Seldom does anyone on the plane have nothing better to do than sit in an airport hotel room for 12-24 hours watching cable TV. People fly on airplanes because they need to be somewhere quickly to do something.

The "vouchers" are another thing. In my experience, they expire after 365 days. Also, they don't look like Willy Wonka's golden ticket with a red wax seal. The one I got was a single sheet of 8 1/2 x 11" with small black type. If you misplace that copy, you're screwed. Since you're stuck flying that airline with the voucher, you have to accept whatever fare is available when the flight is scheduled to your destination. This makes a $400 voucher worth much less than $400 cash, even if one was only allowed to spend it on an airplane ticket.

I've been hearing a lot of pundits saying that the passenger should have complied with the order to leave and then none of this would have happened. They've also accused him of being a little bitch because of his screeching and being dragged off the plane. I can see myself in his place thinking, "my ass is belted in this seat and nothing they offer will get me out". After getting no volunteers, even with "incentives", I would still think my odds of being picked at random to leave would be pretty slim. Once picked, I would be pissed. I would then have the choice to walk off voluntarily and take whatever the airline saw fit to compensate me for my trouble, OR extract a pound of flesh from the airline by letting myself be dragged off while a half dozen other passengers shoot video straight to YouTube. I'm guessing the screaming was probably due to a pain compliance hold. I'm also guessing that he didn't figure on getting his face bashed in.

As for compensation, cash is king. They should start high and bid down. Have an airline rep who isn't flight crew come on board and say, "Everyone who will accept $5000 cash to take the next flight tomorrow morning raise their hand". When all but the two people playing Farmville on their phones raise their hands, say "Okay, how many will do it for $2000?" Then keep lowering the amount until you get the number of hands you need. I call this the "Name That Tune Method". If the airlines were required to do this, maybe they would reconsider the cost effectiveness of overbooking or bumping paying passengers in favor of employees.
"If at first you don't succeed, that's one data point." XKCD
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slowpoke
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Re: MERGED United Passenger Kicked Off/NO FIGHTING

Post by slowpoke »

This keeps getting better. Aparently the airport security are not police and had previously been ordered to remove the words police from their uniforms.
http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/after- ... -policies/
Under questioning by Ald. Edward Burke (14th), Evans revealed that she had ordered aviation security officers — who have been lobbying for the right to carry guns with Burke as their champion — to remove the word “police” from their uniforms.

“In a directive in January, we ordered them to not use the word ‘police.’ To use the word ‘security’ on their jackets,” Evans said.
"Islam delenda est" Aesop
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