US Missiles Fired Into Syria

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randy
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by randy »

+1 Jericho

I am purposely not commenting on TLAM operational employment factors. I may be out of date on specific details, but much of the "terrain" has not changed.

On hitting airfields, I am getting much amusement over "experts" stating the base wasn't hit that bad because the runways are intact. When most of facilities that make it a military airfield vs a regional airport appear to be damaged or destroyed (I would have also hit the aircrew and maintenance troops quarters, but politicians and message sending...)

I will repeat one thing I believe I've said before, you hit runways when attacking airfields because:

1. You need to degrade/disrupt sortie generation from that base for a specific, limited time period to prevent the aircraft based there from interfering with an on-going operation

2. You're an amateur with no education in weapons effects or target selection (often military personnel who never been trained to, nor actually weaponeered, a strike on runways)

3. you're an idiot. (i.e. the Press in general)
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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Kommander
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by Kommander »

Jericho nice catch on those cans. Can they be used to hold anything else?
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Steamforger
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by Steamforger »

randy wrote:+1 Jericho

I am purposely not commenting on TLAM operational employment factors. I may be out of date on specific details, but much of the "terrain" has not changed.

On hitting airfields, I am getting much amusement over "experts" stating the base wasn't hit that bad because the runways are intact. When most of facilities that make it a military airfield vs a regional airport appear to be damaged or destroyed (I would have also hit the aircrew and maintenance troops quarters, but politicians and message sending...)

I will repeat one thing I believe I've said before, you hit runways when attacking airfields because:

1. You need to degrade/disrupt sortie generation from that base for a specific, limited time period to prevent the aircraft based there from interfering with an on-going operation

2. You're an amateur with no education in weapons effects or target selection (often military personnel who never been trained to, nor actually weaponeered, a strike on runways)

3. you're an idiot. (i.e. the Press in general)
I was recently at an R&D center and was given a short brief on a new palletized "hole in the runway" solution package being developed. Basically, we can repair a bomb crater in a runway and have heavies like F-15s sortied in a time frame that most people simply are not capable of believing. Like Randy said, unless you specifically need aircraft not taking off from that airfield for a very limited amount of time, holes in the runway are wasted ordnance.
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Jericho941
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by Jericho941 »

Kommander wrote:Jericho nice catch on those cans. Can they be used to hold anything else?
Not sure. I'd be able to find out more if I understood Russian at this point.
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Odahi
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by Odahi »

I was rotary wing maintenance, not in command of anything but a toolbox. Strategy is not my strong suit. I did hear that the Syrian air force had about 100 planes, and the strike took out 20 of those. Runways can be fixed, but it gets expensive to replace your air force 20% at a time. I like that the target was purely military, and was the base for the earlier WMD attacks. From the reports I've heard, we didn't even target the living quarters. Keep screwing around, though, and it can get really nasty. This was just the first shot. I know we don't want to get embroiled in a long battle here, but we shouldn't need to. I do wish we had something like this,sometimes:
"Project Thor is an idea for a weapons system that launches telephone pole-sized kinetic projectiles made from tungsten from Earth's orbit to damage targets on the ground. Jerry Pournelle originated the concept while working in operations research at Boeing in the 1950s before becoming a science-fiction writer." I've seen it called "Rods from God," too. When they say "damage targets on the ground" they aren't joking. Try to stop a tungsten telephone pole falling on you from orbit. You can't even see it coming, especially if you're some tin-pot piss-ant like Assad. Yeah, there will be damage. Until that day, Tomahawks will just have to do.
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Netpackrat
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by Netpackrat »

Odahi wrote:"Project Thor is an idea for a weapons system that launches telephone pole-sized kinetic projectiles made from tungsten from Earth's orbit to damage targets on the ground. Jerry Pournelle originated the concept while working in operations research at Boeing in the 1950s before becoming a science-fiction writer." I've seen it called "Rods from God," too. When they say "damage targets on the ground" they aren't joking. Try to stop a tungsten telephone pole falling on you from orbit. You can't even see it coming, especially if you're some tin-pot piss-ant like Assad. Yeah, there will be damage. Until that day, Tomahawks will just have to do.
That seems like a colossal waste of material and orbital lift capacity.
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Darrell
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by Darrell »

I've always wondered if Project Thor wasn't an inspiration for Heinlein's The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. I do believe Pournelle and Heinlein knew each other.
Eppur si muove--Galileo
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randy
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by randy »

Darrell wrote:I've always wondered if Project Thor wasn't an inspiration for Heinlein's The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress. I do believe Pournelle and Heinlein knew each other.
IIRC The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress was written before Project Thor was discussed (publicly at least).

Since most weapons are nothing more than systems for applying energy to targets at a distance, just about any physicist would come up with the concept.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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randy
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Re: US Missiles Fired Into Syria

Post by randy »

Netpackrat wrote:That seems like a colossal waste of material and orbital lift capacity.
Thor was conceived in the late 60's early 70's when we still had illusions of building a functioning space program where such a project would be incidental to normal daily space ops. Materials would eventually come from Lunar or asteroid mining.

As far as monetary and other costs, think of what such a system would replace. We could cut back on power projection tools such as Carrier Battle Groups, cruise missile launching ships/subs, and long range aircraft, foreign basing for shorter range aircraft, and all of the personnel and infrastructure to support them. (notice I said cut back, not eliminate).
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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