Shia LeBouf epically trolled

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Vonz90
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by Vonz90 »

What your parents did is impossible now. ALL child support goes through the state now, in fact the federal gobmint gives them money to handle that. The more child support payments the more they get.

What the state of marriage was in the low class when you were marriage age is now the state in the upper middle class.

http://info.legalzoom.com/child-support ... 24833.html

Your statement is false per above. As for marriage - I guess I should inform my oldest daughter and son in law that they are apparently not really married and my grand kids are robots or something. Same for all my sons' friends geting engaged.

Just to be clear, I am not saying we don't have problems - I am saying you don't have a clear picture of what they are.

Related point http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2 ... attled.php
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skb12172
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by skb12172 »

As your legal zoom link states, the law differs depending on where you are. Here, it is very draconian. A family law attorney I know claims his clients would actually have more rights and flexibility if they were charged with murder. A bit of exaggeration, I'm sure, but his point is well taken.

With all due respect, Vonz, you are showing the same blind spot that Kim often did in the old blog. His generational experiences and immediate surroundings were How Things Are, and he couldn't conceive that things could have changed, thus making his frame of reference dated. When personal experience forced him to update his worldview on some things, he was thunderstruck.
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.
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Jericho941
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by Jericho941 »

slowpoke wrote:Jericho, citeing our current feminist society where regret the next day makes the sex last night rape, where there are so few children that societies are importing peoples from those other cultures to try to keep up with the taxes for welfare and social security, might not be so good either.
Sorry, but that's completely unrelated. The lowered fertility rate isn't a result of wives not putting out. Only one contributing factor can, if you reach really hard, be blamed on feminism:

1. You don't need to crank out 8 kids to make sure at least 2 survive to take care of you in your old age.
2. Kids are expensive as hell both in time and money, and as it turns out, people really like having free time after work and being able to go out in public without running the risk of a meltdown, resulting in everyone staring daggers at them as their darling offspring have transformed into Scream Machines. If one wishes to raise a kid responsibly, it takes tremendous effort. Even the super-wealthy usually don't have large families.
3.Contraception is widely available in myriad reliable forms. The odds of having a "happy little accident" are pretty low. We've got people going at it like rabbits who will never have a kid.

The idea that a woman being able to say "not right now" to sex is to blame for a declining birthrate is nonsense.
And how are you having sex so badly that you think its dangerous for your spouse, and projecting that on Vox?
Image

That's such a non sequitur I can't even tell what that's meant to be a response to.
He isnt saying beating the wife is fine, is that what you think?
Nope, he's only saying raping the wife is fine. He tries to justify this argument by saying that screwing someone who doesn't want to be screwed isn't rape.

You can try and conflate any kind of feminist nonsense with this, but this isn't "morning after regret" or "all sex is rape" or any other canard. Simply put, you are arguing that if someone does not want to have sex, and someone forces sex upon them regardless, that's okay if at any point they signed a document vowing to live in a mutually beneficial relationship.

Frankly, that's reprehensible. I mean, for crying out loud, what if the only way your wife could get off was to shove vegetables of increasing size up your ass? Is "sexual satisfaction part of the deal" reasonable when she says "hey baby, get ready for an hour with the cucumber?" Welp, you signed up for this one, soldier. Time to take one for the team.
You dont appear to have read the debate.
I directly quoted it.
Ever woke the wife up with morning sex?
Nope.
Ever "talked her into it" when she wasnt in the mood?
Nope.
Not taken no for an answer to kissing and caressing her until she changed her mind?
Nope.
Yes to any of those is marital rape
Y'know, not to belabor the point or anything, but "not taking 'no' for an answer and screwing them anyway" is the most fundamental definition of rape. You can try and make it cutesy with "until she changes her mind" but the problem is the "not taking no for an answer" part. "No means no" is the most basic criterion when it comes to "am I committing rape or not?" If you have to pester and harass someone until it is more desirable to just let you do your thing so you'll leave them alone, you're not in the right.
Reality is if its to the point were she feels sex with her husband would be rape the divorce has happened in her mind already and she should go get a lawyer and make it official.
Nonsense. The reality is that there is no magic permission slip that gives you unfettered access to violate another person's bodily autonomy, whether you like it or not.
Staying married is keeping the consent.
Staying married is consenting to staying married. Nothing more, nothing less.
The army anology is for those who feel divorve is immoral.
Did you read the debate? The military comparison is obviously meant to say that a wife refusing sex is the same thing as a soldier refusing a lawful order. That they have no right, they signed up for this, and they better suck it up:

"Because it’s not possible to withdraw the consent. There is no such thing as temporary consent. When a marriage vow is made it is made for life. Like I said, it is exactly the same as when you sign up for the military."
any woman can divorce her husband for cash and prizes at anytime.
Even if absolutely true, 100% of the time, that's still completely irrelevant to this issue.
If the marriage doesnt give the husband sexual rights, what the fuck does it give him?
Are we talking on a spiritual or secular level? Because if we're talking on a spiritual level, you're confusing "the privilege of having consensual sex with your spouse without eternal damnation" as meaning "I get to get my rocks off any time I please." On a secular level, if you think the sole purpose of marriage is to legally bind another person make them sexually satisfy you, understand that what you really want is a fleshlight and warming lube. They are readily available online at affordable prices.
Which gets us back to my statement that institution of marriage is gone and is to late to conserve.
If marriage is a contract of ownership rather than partnership, there is no point in conserving it.
Historically and from a Biblical perspective, marriage was the only licit place for sex and romance; sex and romance out of marriage was illicit. We have inverted that so that romance is now the only licit place for sex and marriage. Thus if the romance is gone the sex can be rape, even in the marriage
Who said anything about romance? People who have grown to despise each other in their marriage can still consent to sex and have it. People who love each other may not consent and do it some other time. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.
Nothing said there applies here. If the response you have to your wife saying "not right now" is "MARRIAGE IS OVER, DIVORCE NOW, NOTHING MEANS ANYTHING" I hate to break it to you, but the problem is almost certainly you, and either way, you should do some soul-searching and seriously reevaluate your marriage.
I'm enjoying the debate here. Its funny where political correctness becomes that which conservatives should conserve. Forty years ago the idea of marital rape was thought of how we think of gay marriage.
40 years ago conservatives were arguing for the reinstitution of racial segregation of public services. Things being different in the past does not mean that they were better. Either way, it has zero bearing on this debate.
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blackeagle603
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by blackeagle603 »

Jericho FTW
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story
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Vonz90
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by Vonz90 »

skb12172 wrote:As your legal zoom link states, the law differs depending on where you are. Here, it is very draconian. A family law attorney I know claims his clients would actually have more rights and flexibility if they were charged with murder. A bit of exaggeration, I'm sure, but his point is well taken.

With all due respect, Vonz, you are showing the same blind spot that Kim often did in the old blog. His generational experiences and immediate surroundings were How Things Are, and he couldn't conceive that things could have changed, thus making his frame of reference dated. When personal experience forced him to update his worldview on some things, he was thunderstruck.
This sounds like I am arguing with a teenager again, "You just don't understand XXXX today" - that is not an argument. Neither the data nor my personal observations support your point.

So if it is so bad where you are, go somewhere else. I used to live in a state I did not like, I left. See, it works. No armed guards at the boarder to get by or anything.

If you like the other things about where you live, then I guess you made a choice. That is fine too.
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blackeagle603
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by blackeagle603 »

aaaaaand Vonz for the PAT
"The Guncounter: More fun than a barrel of tattooed knife-fighting chain-smoking monkey butlers with drinking problems and excessive gambling debts!"

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic;" Justice Story
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Weetabix
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by Weetabix »

skb12172 wrote:With all due respect, Vonz, you are showing the same blind spot that Kim often did in the old blog. His generational experiences and immediate surroundings were How Things Are, and he couldn't conceive that things could have changed, thus making his frame of reference dated. When personal experience forced him to update his worldview on some things, he was thunderstruck.
I didn't get that out of any of what Vonz said. I think he's trying to point out that you seem to have an idea of How Things Are and then provide another perception.

I almost agreed that I fit the statement above about bubbles and older generations, but I wasn't sure how it would be taken. I do live in a bubble, but I chose that bubble. I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt where marriage still mostly works and is considered a laudable goal and state. I like that. I know it's not the case in other areas, so I choose not to live in those areas. They say you become the sum of the people you hang out with. So I choose people that I want to be the sum of.

Marriage is in trouble in lots of places. And Hollywood, bureaucracies, and the media do their best to advance that trouble. Doesn't mean you or anyone else have to go along with it. It's just a grown up type of peer pressure. Screw 'em.
Note to self: start reading sig lines. They're actually quite amusing. :D
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dfwmtx
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by dfwmtx »

Shia's trying again, this time on the unoccupied clay of Finland.

PS-get a room you two!
"Arms are honor; slaves have neither."

"I am Chaos, I am alive...and I tell you that you are free!" -Eris Discordia
Greg
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by Greg »

Vonz90 wrote:
skb12172 wrote:As your legal zoom link states, the law differs depending on where you are. Here, it is very draconian. A family law attorney I know claims his clients would actually have more rights and flexibility if they were charged with murder. A bit of exaggeration, I'm sure, but his point is well taken.

With all due respect, Vonz, you are showing the same blind spot that Kim often did in the old blog. His generational experiences and immediate surroundings were How Things Are, and he couldn't conceive that things could have changed, thus making his frame of reference dated. When personal experience forced him to update his worldview on some things, he was thunderstruck.
This sounds like I am arguing with a teenager again, "You just don't understand XXXX today" - that is not an argument. Neither the data nor my personal observations support your point.

So if it is so bad where you are, go somewhere else. I used to live in a state I did not like, I left. See, it works. No armed guards at the boarder to get by or anything.

If you like the other things about where you live, then I guess you made a choice. That is fine too.
You live in a bubble. I'm glad for you- I've gone out of my way to find a similar bubble, almost even the same one. Doesn't mean it's not a bubble.

'Society' is never uniform, ever. People are not all the same, ever. But there certainly are means and averages, and they do change.

Also, most people are, not so much stupid as, for lack of a better word, weak. They will go with the flow, do either what is expected of them, or just what they see people around them doing. Which is why societal standards matter - because people being what they are, shifting societal standards and expectations can greatly move societal means and averages in terms of behavior.

Just because you've found an island of sanity doesn't mean everything is sane, or that there are enough islands of sanity available to everyone.

American women *have* become, in the aggregate, less marriage-worthy. Worse partners, poisoned by a mix of several toxic ideologies. In fairness, men have gotten worse too, though we're at least spared one of the worst toxic ideologies because it's aimed at women.

I'm not going to get into some of the nastier weeds of the argument here, but skb has a very valid point. The dominant culture in the larger society is hostile to men. No disputing that, all you have to do is open your eyes. Again, in that larger dominant culture, female supremacy in matters large and small is something of an expectation and rapidly becoming the norm.

There are pockets where this is less true, and some areas where it's *worse*. Mixing is never uniform, and it always is a good idea to remember (don't be like Pauline Kael) that where you are isn't all there is.
Maybe we're just jaded, but your villainy is not particularly impressive. -Ennesby

If you know what you're doing, you're not learning anything. -Unknown
Sanity is the process by which you continually adjust your beliefs so they are predictively sound. -esr
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skb12172
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Re: Shia LeBouf epically trolled

Post by skb12172 »

Thanks, Greg. He has found a bubble. It's a great one, sounds like. He will most likely never have it burst and see the points I was trying to make. That's a good thing. He says the data doesn't support my points. I'm not sure how or why he comes to that conclusion. It's all too obvious to me on a national scale, not just where I have chosen to live. I guess I'm more aware of the trends and know where to look for the trends, because I have actually observed family court sessions and am friends with a few lawyers who specialize in the area. Furthermore, I regularly see how toxic most academic environments have become to anyone straight and possessing a penis. It's worse if the owner of that penis is white.

If he feels like he has won something, good for him. Because frankly, if he feels like he's talking to a teenager, I feel like I'm talking to my 85 year old father, explaining that to get a job nowadays, you no longer drop off a resume and have a chat with the owner about what a hard worker you are. That there are HR processes, online applications, background checks, drug tests, etc. I think you see the point I'm trying to make.
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.
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