Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

[Yogimus]

From my understanding it wasnt their own property they torched

Did you read any of the linked articles?

I read a bunch of one sided bullshit, does that count?

[skb12172]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/201 ... ore-110497

^THAT^

If the above article is accurate, then the Hammonds need a true "big guns" law firm(like Gerry Spence), AND some political "heavy hitters" to take up their cause. Someone like Sean Hannity needs to hear this back story.

(n) During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the trail which would exonerate the Hammonds. Federal prosecuting attorney, Frank Papagni, was given full access for six days. He had ample time to use any evidence or testimony that strengthened the demonization of the Hammonds. The Hammonds attorney was only allowed 1 day. Many of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury. Example: Judge Hogan did not allow time for the jury to hear or review certified scientific findings the fires improved the health and productivity of the land. Or, that the Hammonds had been subject to vindictive behavior by multiple federal agencies for years.

(o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness who was not mentally capable to be credible. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13-years-old at the time, and 24-years-old when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty’s memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible. However, Judge Hogan allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty’s testimony. When speaking to the Hammonds about this testimony, they understood Dusty was manipulated and expressed nothing but love for their troubled grandson.

(p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process. Hogan & Papagni only allowed people on the jury who did not understand the customs and culture of the ranchers or how land is used and cared for in the Diamond Valley. All of the jurors had to drive back and forth to Pendleton every day. Some drove more than two hours each way. By day 8 they were exhausted and expressed desires to be home.

On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. [Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision.] Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act. The jury, not understanding the customs and cultures of the area and influenced by the prosecutors for six straight days, very exhausted, pushed for a verdict by the judge, unaware of the ramification of convicting someone as a terrorist, gave a verdict and went home.

(q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as “Terrorists” under the 1996 Anti terrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. Both were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. Judge Hogan overruling the minimum terrorist sentence, commented if the full five years were required it would be a violation of the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge. In his honor the staff served chocolate cake in the courtroom.

(r) On January 4, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.

(s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch), along with attorney Frank Papagni exemplified further vindictive behavior by filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.*

And some BLM officials need to do time for civil rights violations, conspiracy, etc. Because otherwise, the fed.gov is going to create more Tim McVeighs.

You could argue that they already are, with the Bundy response submitted as Exhibit A.

[JustinR]

With the backstory that Mekender posted, it's clear that situation is even more F-ed up than I thought. I can see why some have chosen to misbehave over it.

[Termite]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... overnment/

I agree with you that the Bundys are 1st class jackasses.

I read a bunch of one sided bullshit, does that count?

I've been doing a bit of digging, and the linked stories, while definitely favoring the Hammonds, aren't exactly bullshit. The whole thing reads like a "perfect storm" of mis-understandings, government over-reach, "testi-lying" in court,and malicious prosecution.

I don't know if you have ever dealt with the Fed as a land owner, but I have, as has my cousin Mike. I've dealt with BSEE as an oil field worker, and Wildlife and Fisheries as a land owner. And also with the US Forestry Serice, which is a division of the USDA.
I own property surrounded by national forest, and Mike owns property adjacent to a wildlife refuge. For many years, the Fed has been trying to buy both of us out.
Mike was told that if the Louisiana black bear was declared a separate sub-species, the US WLF would force him to sell under eminent domain.
I am not allowed to use Forestry Service roads to transport timber harvested on my land without permission from the head ranger, and paying a fee. I have to use the forestry service roads, it's the only access to my land(short of a helicopter). And the Forestry Service has repeatedly tried to buy me out.
Both the US Forestry Service, BLM, Wildlife and Fisheries have become infested with persons who are generally opposed to private property rights. I know this, because I have spoken with them. Not all are this way, but far too many are, and they are a problem to deal with. And if it's at this level in the southeast where the great majority of land is either private or state owned, I can only imagine what it is like in western states where a huge amount of land is controlled by the federal departments.

Again, I grant you, Yogi, that there are a bunch of malcontent ranchers(like the Bundys) who think that they should have access to public lands for little or no fees. There's still a lot about this whole issue that is unclear. And the Hammonds are not without some fault.
But so far what I've read concerning the Hammonds makes me think that they are being "steamrollered", because the BLM wants their ranch to become part of the Malhuer National Wildlife Refuge.

[Termite]

.... some BLM officials need to do time for civil rights violations, conspiracy, etc. Because otherwise, the fed.gov is going to create more Tim McVeighs.

You could argue that they already are, with the Bundy response submitted as Exhibit A.

Not even close.

When Chad and Rhonda Karges, along with Frank Papagni are found murdered, THEN you'll know "It's ON."

[Aesop]

When Chad and Rhonda Karges, along with Frank Papagni are found murdered, THEN you'll know "It's ON."

Don't be silly.
The last thing anyone sensible should want would be for anyone murdered to be "found".

cf. The trial notes for the murderer(s) of Jimmy Hoffa.

[Termite]

Don't be silly.
The last thing anyone sensible should want would be for anyone murdered to be "found".

cf. The trial notes for the murderer(s) of Jimmy Hoffa.

I reckon it depends on what one wants the message/response to be.

A simple disappearance gets the message to the BLM and US Attorney's office. Bodies found hanged, with the media notified before the local LEOs, means something else.

[skb12172]

As far as the Bundys being hot heads, dick heads, etc, you could say the same about some of the Founding Fathers, including the Adams'. A saint is not what you are generally looking for in those situations.

[mekender]

5 arrested, one killed at what looks to be a traffic stop... They are saying that the guy killed was unarmed.

https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress. ... en-thread/

[mekender]

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-stando ... aj-story-1