Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

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Jered
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by Jered »

skb12172 wrote:If we're all terrorists, not only are you easier to control, it's easier to turn public opinion against you.
Or the word terrorism will cease to have any meaning.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
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Yogimus
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by Yogimus »

Jered wrote:
skb12172 wrote:If we're all terrorists, not only are you easier to control, it's easier to turn public opinion against you.
Or the word terrorism will cease to have any meaning.
So long as there are people willing to fear, words will have meaning
BDK
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by BDK »

This was a significant fear in legal circles. Once you start down the path of star chambers, etc, it only ends in bloodshed, and tyranny

Mankind went through a hell of a lot to get rid of it the first time.
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mekender
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by mekender »

Idiots... Yup...

Any different than the dozens of places that have been overrun by groups like Occupy and Black Lives Matters... I think not...
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
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mekender
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by mekender »

Found this in the comments at Legal Insurrection, seems to be a pretty accurate summary of the situation as I have read it:
The armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters building by some of Cliven Bundy’s relatives and some unspecified “militia members” is getting a lot of press, most of it extremely negative. The occupation is part of a protest of the five year jail terms, to be started tomorrow, of Dwight Hammond, Jr and Steven Hammond on the charge of arson, with a terrorism enhancement. However, the MSM is not telling the whole story, which is quite different than the way they are portraying it. The following is a short version of a very l-o-n-g story.

Back in 1964 the Hammonds purchased a ranch in Oregon’s Harney Basin,comprising about 6000 acres of privately owned property adjacent to the Malheur refuge. Included in that purchase were a ranch house, rights to three sources of water, and four rights to graze cattle on public lands.

By the 1970’s BLM was doing a major expansion of the Malheur refuge, having bought out many of the surrounding ranches, with the refuge eventually surrounding the Hammond’s property. BLM tried many times to buy out the Hammonds but they refused, as did several other ranch owners. In an effort to get those lands BLM tried another tactic; they determined that “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. Accordingly approximately two-thirds of the grazing permits were revoked, forcing a number of ranchers to leave. Permit fees were raised exorbitantly for those still unwilling to sell, and an irrigation system built by the ranchers was confiscated, for lack of a better word, by BLM.

When these tactics failed to force the Hammonds to sell other, less savory methods began. Water sources legally owned by the Hammonds were fenced off, access to a part of their property was denied (they had to cross refuge land to reach it). Then the fire problems started.

In 2001 Steve Hammond started a prescribed burn on their property*. It spread to public land where burned 127 acres and was extinguished by the Hammonds; no federal agency contacted the Hammaonds regarding this burn, even though it was common knowledge in the community. Then in 2006 lightening ignited several fires that merged and in an effort to save their winter range and ranch house Steve Hammond started a backfire. That backfire not only saved their range and home, it put out the lightening generated fire that had already burned several thousand acres.

In response to this good work, BLM went to the local sheriff’s office the next day to file criminal charges against Steve for starting the backfire, calling it arson! The county DA reviewed the evidence and charges, determined they were unwarranted, and dropped all charges. However, in 2011 these incidents were dredged up again and the charge changed to Terrorism against both Dwight and Steven Hammond and, in June 2012, they were convicted. Even though the terrorism law prescribed a minimum sentence of five years the judge cited the Eighth Amendment and gave Dwight three months and Steven twelve. They began serving their sentences January 4, 2013. Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven in January 2014.

All of this was a serious miscarriage of justice, but at least everyone thought it had ended, but that was not to be. In June 2014 the BLM Field Manager and the Manager of the Malheur Refuge, exemplifying the vindictiveness of the BLM in all this – I am tempted to say the vendetta – appealed to the Ninth District Federal Court to have the Hammonds returned to prison to serve the entire five years; astoundingly, that court concurred and “re-sentenced” both to several more years in prison. Further, they were forced to give BLM the right of first refusal; if they ever sell the ranch, they will have to sell it to BLM!

The Hammonds will report to prison on Monday, January 4 2015. To make things even worse they still have half of a $400,000 debt to the BLM that must be paid immediately; if they cannot pay, as seems probable, they will face additional prosecution … or finally be forced to sell the ranch.

And so, we have people breaking the law by occupying the Malheur Headquarters building to protest the way the BLM has harassed and persecuted a family trying to live their lives as they wish, in full accordance with the law. Whether or not their decision as to how to carry out that protest is wise or not, and I believe it is not, their motives for doing so have to be respected.

*Prescribed burns have been used for centuries. By safely reducing excessive amounts of brush, shrubs, and trees, encouraging the new growth of native vegetation, and maintaining the many plant and animal species whose habitats depend on periodic fire, prescribed burning helps reduce the catastrophic damage of wildfire on our lands and surrounding communities.
“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
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mekender
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

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“I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.” - Norman Thomas, a six time candidate for president for the Socialist Party, 1944
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Termite
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by Termite »

^THAT^

If the above article is accurate, then the Hammonds need a true "big guns" law firm(like Gerry Spence), AND some political "heavy hitters" to take up their cause. Someone like Sean Hannity needs to hear this back story.

(n) During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the trail which would exonerate the Hammonds. Federal prosecuting attorney, Frank Papagni, was given full access for six days. He had ample time to use any evidence or testimony that strengthened the demonization of the Hammonds. The Hammonds attorney was only allowed 1 day. Many of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury. Example: Judge Hogan did not allow time for the jury to hear or review certified scientific findings the fires improved the health and productivity of the land. Or, that the Hammonds had been subject to vindictive behavior by multiple federal agencies for years.

(o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness who was not mentally capable to be credible. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13-years-old at the time, and 24-years-old when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty’s memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible. However, Judge Hogan allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty’s testimony. When speaking to the Hammonds about this testimony, they understood Dusty was manipulated and expressed nothing but love for their troubled grandson.

(p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process. Hogan & Papagni only allowed people on the jury who did not understand the customs and culture of the ranchers or how land is used and cared for in the Diamond Valley. All of the jurors had to drive back and forth to Pendleton every day. Some drove more than two hours each way. By day 8 they were exhausted and expressed desires to be home.

On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. [Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision.] Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act. The jury, not understanding the customs and cultures of the area and influenced by the prosecutors for six straight days, very exhausted, pushed for a verdict by the judge, unaware of the ramification of convicting someone as a terrorist, gave a verdict and went home.

(q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as “Terrorists” under the 1996 Anti terrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. Both were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. Judge Hogan overruling the minimum terrorist sentence, commented if the full five years were required it would be a violation of the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge. In his honor the staff served chocolate cake in the courtroom.

(r) On January 4, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.

(s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch), along with attorney Frank Papagni exemplified further vindictive behavior by filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.*
And some BLM officials need to do time for civil rights violations, conspiracy, etc. Because otherwise, the fed.gov is going to create more Tim McVeighs.
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."
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Yogimus
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by Yogimus »

From my understanding it wasnt their own property they torched
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Termite
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Re: Bundy Ranch 2 under way in Oregon

Post by Termite »

Yogimus wrote:From my understanding it wasnt their own property they torched
Did you read any of the linked articles?
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."
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