Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

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Old Grafton
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by Old Grafton »

Denis wrote:
PawPaw wrote:People who perform reenactments age generally good people...
Not arguing with that, but I don't see the attraction of re-enacting, myself. It's not like the other side is going to win this time around, just to keep things interesting :mrgreen:
I've always felt a bit unsettled with the idea of wartime "re-enacting" unless the "re-enactors" are themselves veterans. Otherwise they're just poseurs. To their credit, they generally try to get it close to right, unlike Hollywood. JMO.
I'm not old--It's too early to be this late.
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Netpackrat
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by Netpackrat »

Denis wrote:Not arguing with that, but I don't see the attraction of re-enacting, myself. It's not like the other side is going to win this time around, just to keep things interesting :mrgreen:
My history's a little hazy Cassius, but aren't the barbarians supposed to lose the battle of Carthage?
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
MarkD
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by MarkD »

Former Civil War reenactor here. Reenacting is great fun, and you can make some good friends. Units ranged from very, very good to piss poor (just like anything else), I wasted some time trying to improve one of the piss-poor ones and gave up as a bad job.

Never saw anyone with actual ammo, but I did hear of tompions (little wooden plug used to keep water and such out of the barrel) being launched, may events expressly forbade tompions for that reason, and some didn't allow rammers or at least use thereof because they could be launched too.

As for who wins, there were basically three types of events: historical reenactments, tacticals, and living histories. Historical reenactments were basically a reenactment of the actual battle, with movements and events as close as possible to what actually happened. Tacticals where force-on-force with judges determining who won, and living histories were a depiction of daily life from the era (for instance an encampment). All could be lots of fun.
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PawPaw
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by PawPaw »

My son, for a time, (while his wife was in grad school) was a living history interpreter at two very prominent state parks. In one, he played the role of an enlisted 18th century french soldier. In the other, he was a quartermaster at an 18th century Spanish fort.

The re-enactment he had most fun with was the early 18th century Chicken war. The Spanish mission at Los Adaes was temporarily captured by French forces from Fort St Jean Baptiste in Natchitoches. What happened, basically, was that the French garrison was temporarily under the command of a glory-seeking lieutenant who decided while the commandant was away, he'd launch a military expedition against the Spanish at Los Adaes. So, he rounded up a half-dozen soldiers and trekked west twenty miles to the Spanish fort.

When he arrived, he found that the garrison was away on a mission, leaving behind one drunken Spanish soldier and a Catholic priest. The French lieutenant captured the Spanish soldier, tied him to a tree, The lieutenant told the priest to mind his own business, then stole all the Spanish chickens, raised the French flag, declared victory, and returned to Natchitoches.

It was a great military adventure, and caused the abandonment of the Spanish mission at Los Adaes.
Dennis Dezendorf
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Kommander
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by Kommander »

Old Grafton wrote:I've always felt a bit unsettled with the idea of wartime "re-enacting" unless the "re-enactors" are themselves veterans. Otherwise they're just poseurs. To their credit, they generally try to get it close to right, unlike Hollywood. JMO.
I know that allot of the more modern warfare reenacting groups have closed battles that are essentially wargames that have no fixed outcome. One SS reenacting group out in the Pennsylvania/New Jersey area actually bought the Saving Private Ryan Tiger to use.
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Rod
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by Rod »

I've been involved in reenacting/living history for over 20 years. We've never had an accident like this though we've shot ourselves with blanks. NEVER has a spectator been injured, thank the gods. We have a rule that NO live ammo in any of the calibers used is allowed near the reenactment; we also have TWO people check every gun and someone observing and triple checking. Finally, we NEVER have spectators standing anywhere near the line of fire, JUST in case. This was nothing more than culpable negligence by the leaders, by the members and by the man who fired the shots. Aesop is right in just about everything he said.
one can be a Democrat, or one can choose to be an American.
Good acting requires an imagination; reality requires a person not getting lost in their imagination.
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Yogimus
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by Yogimus »

Aesop wrote:Heard that one on national radio network news yesterday morning.

Any re-enactard so fucktarded as to undertake a display shoot with live rounds in the gun should be prosecuted by the local authorities to the fullest extent of the law, to include any charges regarding brandishing a firearm and public endangerment, if not actual attempted murder and or ADW charges.
Just to leave a mark.
If the result is one or more felony convictions that leaves him unable to own weapons legally henceforth, Boo Fucking Hoo.
If he is thenceforth forced to commit suicide with a tanto as a result of not owning guns, viva traditionalism.

The group responsible should have their safety officer and head honcho fired, their permit to conduct future shows suspended for a year, and be sued corporately and individually for gross fucktardation in public to whatever extent a jury will sit still for.

And any sentence imposed that includes public horsewhipping and time in the stocks would not be too harsh; if anything, it's too lenient.

When the Deadeye responsible for the mayhem gets out of the hospital, the rest of the group, who went through the proper pre-game safety checks, should get to line up to kick him in the dick twice apiece, and in fact be required to do so in order to maintain their continued membership.
That's as close as I can come to Flogging Around The Fleet, and it fits to a "t" in this case.

That's also the only sort of Zero Tolerance policy I could support wholeheartedly.

Yep
Old Grafton
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by Old Grafton »

I was careless earlier in my characterization of all re-enactors as poseurs, and I apologize if I offended anyone; my discomfort is actually directed toward the re-enacting of WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam--those events are a little too close in time, and veterans of those conflicts are still living. Before he died one of my uncles was really angered seeing American men pretending to be SS. A history Prof once told us that history isn't History until all the participants have passed on. It's Current Events.
I'm not old--It's too early to be this late.
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PawPaw
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by PawPaw »

Old Grafton wrote:I was careless earlier in my characterization of all re-enactors as poseurs, and I apologize if I offended anyone; my discomfort is actually directed toward the re-enacting of WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam--those events are a little too close in time, and veterans of those conflicts are still living. Before he died one of my uncles was really angered seeing American men pretending to be SS. A history Prof once told us that history isn't History until all the participants have passed on. It's Current Events.
You didn't offend me, and I pretty much agree. Sometimes we've got to let history rest a little bit before we try to interpret it.

I agree that some guys are poseurs, and reenactor groups should try to sort those out.

What really bugs me about some of the folks in the Old-West reenactment hobby are what I call "stitch-Nazis". If someone once saw an original item that originally had 19 stitches, and yours has 21 stitches, it's just not original enough for reenacting.

I got into a discussion recently about riveted blue jeans. He claimed they're not authentic. I told him that Levi Stauss had been making blue jeans since 1873. They no longer have suspender buttons, but the 501 jean can trace its history back to 1890, when product numbers were assigned.
Dennis Dezendorf
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Kommander
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Re: Just what we need - Gunfight re-eanctment with live ammo

Post by Kommander »

The "stitch-Nazis" stuff can get pretty nuts. I've heard stories of people calling out as fake items that were actually used in the conflict in question, and were even dated. Also heard stories of guys running around with black lights.
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