WWII Japanese Internment Camps

[skb12172]

Necessary or not? Do you envision a political environment existing in this country, in the near future, that would ever allow something similar for a particular ethnic group or religion?

Discuss…

[Aglifter]

A) Highly doubt they were necessary, other than, perhaps, for their own safety.

B) I can't really see them as necessary, again, unless they become necessary for the minority's own safety.

[skb12172]

Re-reading MHI 4 and it got me to thinking on the subject.

[Highspeed]

I'll have to think about that one...

It wasn't a unique event though - the US government treatment of Japanese American citizens.

The UK interned a lot of Jewish and anti-Nazi refugees from Germany - they were often sent to camps in Canada. Some of them were Soviet spies of course, but a vanishingly small number. It was pretty shameful.
The German Abwehr had a complete lack of success infiltrating spies into the UK - every one was discovered and then turned or quietly executed.
The Soviets had a lot more luck thanks to having high ranking traitors working for them in our intelligence services.

What might be also ( kind of ) relevant is that socialist trade unions and politicians in the UK were resisting the immigration of refugees from Nazi occupied territory immediately prior to the war on a " British jobs for British workers " basis - It's something which has been airbrushed out of our history though. Racist liberals ? who would have believed that

[MarkD]

Necessary? Nope.

Could it happen again? Of course.

I think it was in the 2004 (Bush against Kerry) election when a co-worker opined that anyone who voted Republican ought to be shipped to "Wyoming or someplace". I found it odd at the time that this was said by a Jewish guy. I wrote down my address, handed it to him, and told him that (a) I'd expect him to come by that evening to relocate me, (b) he ought to bring a LOT of people he didn't like with him because (c) I had no intention of going peaceably.

The steps to stripping certain people of their rights:

1) Develop an attitude of group identity, where your membership in a group is more important than what you are/do as an individual (we're well on our way to this particular Hell on Earth). In WW II it was easy, the Japs attacked us, these people are Japs, so let's get rid of them. It says a lot about our American decency that we interred them instead of killing them outright as either the Japanese or German government would have done.

2) Once group-identify is firmly in place, define one group as acting in a manner consistant with the "common good" whoever you define it, and the other group as acting against that good. Make the common good more important than any one individual's good. Now you can do what you need to in good conscience.

3) Define that other group as non-person, as not deserving of consideration as far as their rights are concerned. This is a bastardization of what we do now in terms of self defense. We say (CORRECTLY) that a person who's victimizing another has no right to life, liberty or pursuit of happiness BECAUSE of the actions he chose. A jump of illogic changes that from actions he chose to group he chose, from there the jump to lacking rights because of your group regardless of whether you chose it is a short one.

So yeah, it could happen again. I'd suggest that we're rather far along the path.

[Rod]

I think immediately after Pearl Harbor, they should have been interned for a short period. After a quick examination, a radio address by FDR explaining they were NOT the problem and were American citizens could have helped some. To intern them in the camps for the duration, in terrible locations and conditions are the real crime here. Can it happen in the future? I'm pretty sure it could happen, especially with some of the people in the government today.

[Vonz90]

Very unlikely that they did much positive.

While they could not do the same to all of them, the also randomly interned Italians and Germans. That included "exchanging" them with the Axis for various people we wanted. In some cases we sent back 2nd generation or more Americans who did not even speak German.

My father served in the Army with a guy whose family was shipped to Germany in '43 or something like that when he was a kid even though they were all US citizens. His father was killed by the by the Nazis at some point. He got a job working at a US base after the war and and eventually sponsored to emigrate when one of the officers noticed that he had a NY accent.

There are some good books about it, but it does not get talked about much. There was actually a CMH winner whose family was interred when he was awarded.

[Aesop]

They were what happens when hysterical jackasses get a pass on running the country, even for a few minutes, let alone months.

The event constitutes probably the first war crime we perpetrated in WWII, against our own citizens, and should have seen Earl Warren, FDR, and the SCOTUS
responsible tried in absentia or in person, and where possible, they and their minions down to the lowest camp guard placed in federal prison for the same length of time as the longest-interred detainee, and recorded officially as felons for life, including military service records to this day. Because if "just following orders" doesn't hold water at Nuremburg, it shouldn't cut any ice at Santa Anita Racetrack or Manzanar either. Of course, that'll never happen, because so many lies would be exposed, mostly on the part of the "liberal" leftists, and all those supposedly "Greatest Generation" folks holding the rifles with the bayonets, rounding citizens up, and manning the guard towers.

It only occurred in the first place because it was perpetrated against a people barely assimilated to American values, and from a culture that revered orderly obedience to orders and quietly laying your head on the chopping block if so directed.




It will happen again precisely because we've let way too many hysterical jackasses into the corridors of power.

But as no one is likely to be as uncomplainingly compliant and obliging the next time, I expect it will proceed far differently the minute it's tried.
But the facts of what happened in Boston last year show that the urge to roll over and take it in the pants is well-ingrained in certain populations.

[Rod]

They were what happens when hysterical jackasses get a pass on running the country, even for a few minutes, let alone months.

The event constitutes probably the first war crime we perpetrated in WWII, against our own citizens, and should have seen Earl Warren, FDR, and the SCOTUS
responsible tried in absentia or in person, and where possible, they and their minions down to the lowest camp guard placed in federal prison for the same length of time as the longest-interred detainee, and recorded officially as felons for life, including military service records to this day. Because if "just following orders" doesn't hold water at Nuremburg, it shouldn't cut any ice at Santa Anita Racetrack or Manzanar either. Of course, that'll never happen, because so many lies would be exposed, mostly on the part of the "liberal" leftists, and all those supposedly "Greatest Generation" folks holding the rifles with the bayonets, rounding citizens up, and manning the guard towers.

It only occurred in the first place because it was perpetrated against a people barely assimilated to American values, and from a culture that revered orderly obedience to orders and quietly laying your head on the chopping block if so directed.




It will happen again precisely because we've let way too many hysterical jackasses into the corridors of power.

But as no one is likely to be as uncomplainingly compliant and obliging the next time, I expect it will proceed far differently the minute it's tried.
But the facts of what happened in Boston last year show that the urge to roll over and take it in the pants is well-ingrained in certain populations.

I might have been misunderstood in my post. Nowhere did I say it was right. I did say because of the heinous nature of the attack, the Nisei were actually in quite a lot of danger from other Americans taking "justice" into their own hands. The Nisei should have been confined (any word is lousy) as a necessity and released as soon as tempers calmed down and the government stressed they were NOT to blame for what happened. Swift prosecution for anyone harming a Nisei would have helped also.

[Aesop]

I didn't assume you thought it was right.

But it was wholly unnecessary.
No one attacked people of Japanese ancestry in Hawaii, or the Philippines.
This was Earl Warren's hysteria, coupled to FDR's "Big Daddy Knows Best" lifelong spring-loaded response to everything, the cornerstone of his presidency, and the guiding light of his entire life in politics.

We're Americans. We don't make a national pastime out of punishing the innocent just because they're handy.
We build 50,000 planes and 100 aircraft carriers, and go over and kick them in the nuts in person.
That's how we roll.

Ask anyone who's been to SWAsia anytime in the last 11 years.