2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

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2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby rightisright » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:50 pm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 803593001/

Now, I don't know shit about sailing. My experience is limited to one of those 12' long Sunfish. But it seems like the combined knowledge of these two broads is only slightly above mine. Their engine broke down, so they were stranded... on a sailboat. And they were stupid enough to go out into the vast ocean without an EPIRB (had to google that. Saw one on an episode of Deadliest Catch).

EPIRB: https://www.amazon.com/ACR-GlobalFix-28 ... ords=epirb

They could afford a desalinator and a years worth of food but not one EPIRB?

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Weetabix » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:29 pm

They should have motored to Tahiti on grrrrrl power.
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Jered » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:17 am

They're probably stupid hippies.
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby 308Mike » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:33 am

Jered wrote:They're probably stupid hippies.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Netpackrat » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:55 am

It sounds as though they failed at navigation as much as anything... Wonder if they were depending on engine power to keep their GPS equipment working and/or batteries on a handheld charged? Because if you didn't know where you were, or where you were going, yeah, it's a big damn ocean out there, and you could still know how to sail (speaking only of operating the boat), and not manage to go anywhere useful.
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Vonz90 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:08 am

Netpackrat wrote:It sounds as though they failed at navigation as much as anything... Wonder if they were depending on engine power to keep their GPS equipment working and/or batteries on a handheld charged? Because if you didn't know where you were, or where you were going, yeah, it's a big damn ocean out there, and you could still know how to sail (speaking only of operating the boat), and not manage to go anywhere useful.


Thus - They sailed on but without GPS or other electronic navigation aids - They were screwed. In the Atlantic you can fake it a bit but the Pac is too damn big.

That said - navigation on celestial and dead reckoning is not easy (SWO saying this) but if you keep your head about you and are more concerned with getting somewhere rather than where you originally intended to go, then it I not THAT hard.

Random bet that they did not actually have ANY paper charts so the had to wing it completely as soon as they lost GPS.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Netpackrat » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:12 am

Then add in the fact that you usually can't set a direct course with a sailing vessel, especially with the auxiliary out of commission... You've got to tack, jibe and stuff depending on what the wind is doing, so even if you've got the tools and skills for dead reckoning, it would get complicated pretty quickly.

From what I have gathered, it's actually not that uncommon for long range cruisers to provision with months and months of food, but the apparent lack of any backup nav equipment and/or power generation capacity was kind of a boner move. I've actually been watching some of the sailing channels on Youtube a little bit lately, not because I really want to go do that, but it's just interesting to me technically, and the babes in bikinis are kind of a nice bonus for watching. There's a bunch of those channels now and they all tend to follow the same formula of a young couple put together the funds to buy a used blue water sailboat, and set out to travel the world and get people to subscribe and send them money. They usually start out with little to no sailing experience, and it's almost always a dude and his reasonably attractive wife or girlfriend, and no kids. The boats are always bought used, in various states of disrepair, so you get to watch the drama of repair work and upgrades besides all the fun stuff.

One thing that a lot of them seem to have added, which probably would have helped the women who got lost, is a bank of solar panels for keeping the batteries charged while traveling under sail. I suppose they may have had something like that, but lost it in the same storm that knocked out their motor. Just as a WAG based on the video I would put that boat at 30ish feet, which I would guess to be a little on the small side for a pacific crossing unless you really had your shit together.
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Vonz90 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:41 pm

Netpackrat wrote:Then add in the fact that you usually can't set a direct course with a sailing vessel, especially with the auxiliary out of commission... You've got to tack, jibe and stuff depending on what the wind is doing, so even if you've got the tools and skills for dead reckoning, it would get complicated pretty quickly.

From what I have gathered, it's actually not that uncommon for long range cruisers to provision with months and months of food, but the apparent lack of any backup nav equipment and/or power generation capacity was kind of a boner move. I've actually been watching some of the sailing channels on Youtube a little bit lately, not because I really want to go do that, but it's just interesting to me technically, and the babes in bikinis are kind of a nice bonus for watching. There's a bunch of those channels now and they all tend to follow the same formula of a young couple put together the funds to buy a used blue water sailboat, and set out to travel the world and get people to subscribe and send them money. They usually start out with little to no sailing experience, and it's almost always a dude and his reasonably attractive wife or girlfriend, and no kids. The boats are always bought used, in various states of disrepair, so you get to watch the drama of repair work and upgrades besides all the fun stuff.

One thing that a lot of them seem to have added, which probably would have helped the women who got lost, is a bank of solar panels for keeping the batteries charged while traveling under sail. I suppose they may have had something like that, but lost it in the same storm that knocked out their motor. Just as a WAG based on the video I would put that boat at 30ish feet, which I would guess to be a little on the small side for a pacific crossing unless you really had your shit together.


If you have a sextant, and at least a rudimentary idea on how to use it, the very old method of navigation was to sight lines to the north star to get latitude, sail to the latitude of wherever you are going and then East/West to get there. That is not to hard to do for a novice. Technically do not even need a sextant, but at least something that can measure an angle to the horizon in a pinch (two sticks on a pivot and a compass rose could work for instance). Of course, you need a large enough scale chart to be able to figure out the latitude of where you are going and adjust to it.

Shooting a running fix to either sun or moon lines is more complex, but not completely infeasible for a semi-novice. You do need to be able to estimate your speed while doing this, but there are tools for this that you should have on board (can rig something with line if you have to as well). You need to know at least the general area of where you are on the planet to work that, but as long as you are taking fixes occasionally, that should not be a problem.

Taking full on three star fixes is very difficult and I would not expect anyone to do that unless they were relatively skilled/practiced, However, with two methods above it should not actually be necessary for rudimentary navigation to get somewhere.

BTW - I agree that a 30 ft boat is definitely pushing it for that application. I did my sailing in the Atlantic in a 44 ft yawl back in the day. The longest legs we did were maybe a little short of 1000 Nm and that was pushing it for my tastes in that sized boat. A lot depends on the how the boat is layed out and all that, but still, 30 ft is kinda small.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby MarkD » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:45 pm

Vonz90 wrote:
Netpackrat wrote:Then add in the fact that you usually can't set a direct course with a sailing vessel, especially with the auxiliary out of commission... You've got to tack, jibe and stuff depending on what the wind is doing, so even if you've got the tools and skills for dead reckoning, it would get complicated pretty quickly.

From what I have gathered, it's actually not that uncommon for long range cruisers to provision with months and months of food, but the apparent lack of any backup nav equipment and/or power generation capacity was kind of a boner move. I've actually been watching some of the sailing channels on Youtube a little bit lately, not because I really want to go do that, but it's just interesting to me technically, and the babes in bikinis are kind of a nice bonus for watching. There's a bunch of those channels now and they all tend to follow the same formula of a young couple put together the funds to buy a used blue water sailboat, and set out to travel the world and get people to subscribe and send them money. They usually start out with little to no sailing experience, and it's almost always a dude and his reasonably attractive wife or girlfriend, and no kids. The boats are always bought used, in various states of disrepair, so you get to watch the drama of repair work and upgrades besides all the fun stuff.

One thing that a lot of them seem to have added, which probably would have helped the women who got lost, is a bank of solar panels for keeping the batteries charged while traveling under sail. I suppose they may have had something like that, but lost it in the same storm that knocked out their motor. Just as a WAG based on the video I would put that boat at 30ish feet, which I would guess to be a little on the small side for a pacific crossing unless you really had your shit together.


If you have a sextant, and at least a rudimentary idea on how to use it, the very old method of navigation was to sight lines to the north star to get latitude, sail to the latitude of wherever you are going and then East/West to get there. That is not to hard to do for a novice. Technically do not even need a sextant, but at least something that can measure an angle to the horizon in a pinch (two sticks on a pivot and a compass rose could work for instance). Of course, you need a large enough scale chart to be able to figure out the latitude of where you are going and adjust to it.

Shooting a running fix to either sun or moon lines is more complex, but not completely infeasible for a semi-novice. You do need to be able to estimate your speed while doing this, but there are tools for this that you should have on board (can rig something with line if you have to as well). You need to know at least the general area of where you are on the planet to work that, but as long as you are taking fixes occasionally, that should not be a problem.

Taking full on three star fixes is very difficult and I would not expect anyone to do that unless they were relatively skilled/practiced, However, with two methods above it should not actually be necessary for rudimentary navigation to get somewhere.

BTW - I agree that a 30 ft boat is definitely pushing it for that application. I did my sailing in the Atlantic in a 44 ft yawl back in the day. The longest legs we did were maybe a little short of 1000 Nm and that was pushing it for my tastes in that sized boat. A lot depends on the how the boat is layed out and all that, but still, 30 ft is kinda small.



Problem being, as NPR pointed out, that sailing vessels don't necessarily sail in a straight line, so going to the latitude you want then sailing due East or West might not work, the wind gets a vote.

Still, it seems they were in well over their heads and survived more thru luck than anything else. Not something to count on. Hell, a Sat phone would have had them home long ago.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Weetabix » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:39 pm

MarkD wrote:Problem being, as NPR pointed out, that sailing vessels don't necessarily sail in a straight line, so going to the latitude you want then sailing due East or West might not work, the wind gets a vote.

Maybe you don't check your latitude just the once? ;)
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby MarkD » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:16 pm

Weetabix wrote:
MarkD wrote:Problem being, as NPR pointed out, that sailing vessels don't necessarily sail in a straight line, so going to the latitude you want then sailing due East or West might not work, the wind gets a vote.

Maybe you don't check your latitude just the once? ;)


Indeed. And tacking into the wind requires a certain level of seamanship (seapersonship?) That they seemed to lack. Otherwise they'd not have spent five months in the open ocean, on a boat deemed not seaworthy, eating rice and pasta.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Vonz90 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:27 am

Weetabix wrote:
MarkD wrote:Problem being, as NPR pointed out, that sailing vessels don't necessarily sail in a straight line, so going to the latitude you want then sailing due East or West might not work, the wind gets a vote.

Maybe you don't check your latitude just the once? ;)


If the wind does not allow you to sail in the direction you want to go - you have to tack back and forth as about 33 degrees off the wind one the closest most boats can sail to the wind. This is generally the first thing one learns when sailing.

As for tracking ones progress made good- that is what dead reckoning does. Plot the direction and speed and then mark the turns with the new direction and speed and you can calculate your net distance and direction made good.

If you are just following a line of bearing it is actually even easier- just make sure you are spending about the same amount of time on each tack and they will average out.

It is big ocean - 50 or 100 NM one way or the other is no big deal.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby MarkD » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:45 am

Vonz90 wrote:
Weetabix wrote:
MarkD wrote:Problem being, as NPR pointed out, that sailing vessels don't necessarily sail in a straight line, so going to the latitude you want then sailing due East or West might not work, the wind gets a vote.

Maybe you don't check your latitude just the once? ;)


If the wind does not allow you to sail in the direction you want to go - you have to tack back and forth as about 33 degrees off the wind one the closest most boats can sail to the wind. This is generally the first thing one learns when sailing.

As for tracking ones progress made good- that is what dead reckoning does. Plot the direction and speed and then mark the turns with the new direction and speed and you can calculate your net distance and direction made good.

If you are just following a line of bearing it is actually even easier- just make sure you are spending about the same amount of time on each tack and they will average out.

It is big ocean - 50 or 100 NM one way or the other is no big deal.


It's plenty enough to miss most islands in the Pacific, if you're just looking for land from the deck.

My point being, had they been even moderately capable of sailing a boat across the Pacific, they'd not have spent five months at sea. Good on them they had enough rice and a way to desalinize water, so they didn't have to eat the dogs or each other.

They obviously didn't have even the minimum capability to be out there. Which makes their rescue dumb luck or Darwin denied. They played a stupid game and didn't win the stupiedist prize they might have, which would have been their boat being found four years from now with their mummified corpses surrounded by dog bones.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Windy Wilson » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:17 am

As my grandfather often said, 'more luck than brains.'
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Vonz90 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:49 pm

MarkD wrote:
It's plenty enough to miss most islands in the Pacific, if you're just looking for land from the deck.

They obviously didn't have even the minimum capability to be out there. Which makes their rescue dumb luck or Darwin denied. They played a stupid game and didn't win the stupiedist prize they might have, which would have been their boat being found four years from now with their mummified corpses surrounded by dog bones.


True enough if you are sailing towards a small island. So if you are lost in the middle of the Pacific, don't try to navigate towards a small island.

Tahiti is close to due south from Hawaii, random guess is they tried to continue sailing there. Maybe not a bad plan if they knew how to navigate well with celestial, but a very crappy plan if you don't because it is not large, there are not too many other islands around it and if you miss it the next big land mass down the same line of bearing is Antarctica.

Sail south west from there and you will hit either the Solomon Islands (lots of them), New Guinea or after that Australia. Better yet, it would take you towards common shipping lanes so there is more likely a chance of assistance, and the prevailing winds would be with you. That is what Capt. Bligh did in a ship's long boat and he made it.

Apparently they knew none of this, and not knowing any of this they should not have considered attempting the sail trip they attempted. I know how to sail reasonably well and and very good at navigation yet I would not try it without a lot of work up and sure as heck not in the boat they were using. Fools rush in and all that.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby HTRN » Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:39 pm

I find it amusing that you guys think this actually happened, and isn't a publicity stunt in order to secure a book deal. :ugeek:
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby randy » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:36 pm

Once again, HTRN may be a prophet (scary thought that!)

From CNN

The mariners, Jennifer Appel and Tasha Fuiava, had one EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) on board, which was properly registered," Coast Guard Petty Officer 2nd Class Tara Molle told CNN....Molle told CNN that "as far as we know, the EPIRB on their sailboat was working properly. I can't speculate as to why they wouldn't have activated it.


Appel as saying that "on the first night" they encountered a "force 11 storm," which they battled for the following two nights and three days.
However, Norman Hui, a National Weather Service meteorologist in Honolulu told CNN there were "no organized storm systems near the Hawaiian Islands on the dates of May 3, 2017 or the few days afterward."
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Netpackrat » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:35 am

randy wrote:Once again, HTRN may be a prophet (scary thought that!)


He also said the fix was in for Cruz, and IIRC Giuliani too at various times. :lol:
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Vonz90 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:56 pm

randy wrote:Once again, HTRN may be a prophet (scary thought that!)

From CNN

The mariners, Jennifer Appel and Tasha Fuiava, had one EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) on board, which was properly registered," Coast Guard Petty Officer 2nd Class Tara Molle told CNN....Molle told CNN that "as far as we know, the EPIRB on their sailboat was working properly. I can't speculate as to why they wouldn't have activated it.


Appel as saying that "on the first night" they encountered a "force 11 storm," which they battled for the following two nights and three days.
However, Norman Hui, a National Weather Service meteorologist in Honolulu told CNN there were "no organized storm systems near the Hawaiian Islands on the dates of May 3, 2017 or the few days afterward."


It is not unusual for inexperienced sailors to think a given storm is much bigger than it actually is.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Steamforger » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:08 pm

Their story is completely unraveling. Battering attacks by 30' Tiger Sharks, only wanting to use the EPIRB for "life threatening" situations, not making landfall two times because their hull was too deep to make the harbor, storms that didn't exist, and a lot of other bull.

In addition to HTRN's expectation of a book deal, I'll add the talk show circuit and a shot in the arm to the boat owner's semi-professional career as an extra.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby randy » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:36 pm

Netpackrat wrote:
randy wrote:Once again, HTRN may be a prophet (scary thought that!)


He also said the fix was in for Cruz, and IIRC Giuliani too at various times. :lol:


I didn't say he was a good prophet! :mrgreen:
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Weetabix » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:21 pm

Ach! The whole thing sounds more and more... fishy.
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Netpackrat » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:38 am

I thought this was a pretty interesting video about a rescue at sea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8bfj2Mx65k
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Termite » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:16 am

MarkD wrote:.... so they didn't have to eat ..... each other....


I wouldn't bet on that......... :lol:
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Netpackrat » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:41 am

Termite wrote:
MarkD wrote:.... so they didn't have to eat ..... each other....


I wouldn't bet on that......... :lol:


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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby MarkD » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:04 pm

Termite wrote:
MarkD wrote:.... so they didn't have to eat ..... each other....


I wouldn't bet on that......... :lol:


Well, maybe they didn't have GPS, but they may have had a video camera.....

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby HTRN » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:47 am

Netpackrat wrote:
randy wrote:Once again, HTRN may be a prophet (scary thought that!)


He also said the fix was in for Cruz, and IIRC Giuliani too at various times. :lol:

When one of your candidates has past involving multiple divorces, and an appearance on professional wrestling, its not hard to dismiss him as a candidate. ;)

The fix WAS in for cruz, it just wasnt enough. :ugeek:

As for guiliani, my last comment about him was "god forbid" in response to the idea of him as AG.. :ugeek:
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby HTRN » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:49 am

randy wrote:
Netpackrat wrote:
randy wrote:Once again, HTRN may be a prophet (scary thought that!)


He also said the fix was in for Cruz, and IIRC Giuliani too at various times. :lol:


I didn't say he was a good prophet! :mrgreen:

Good, Bad? Im the guy with the five axis! :mrgreen:
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby HTRN » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:55 pm

Termite wrote:
MarkD wrote:.... so they didn't have to eat ..... each other....


I wouldn't bet on that......... :lol:

More info has come to light, like this wasnt the first time she got into trouble on a sailboat, that Appel was a stripper, and has been described by associates as "not too bright"
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Steamforger » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:28 pm

HTRN wrote:
Termite wrote:
MarkD wrote:.... so they didn't have to eat ..... each other....


I wouldn't bet on that......... :lol:

More info has come to light, like this wasnt the first time she got into trouble on a sailboat, that Appel was a stripper, and has been described by associates as "not too bright"


I think the only positive thing that could be said is she appears to be flexible.

Reading the same article I suspect you did, this is clearly a stunt to write a book to finance a 2nd attempt at some organic farm in Tahiti.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby rightisright » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:32 pm

HTRN wrote:
Termite wrote:
MarkD wrote:.... so they didn't have to eat ..... each other....


I wouldn't bet on that......... :lol:

More info has come to light, like this wasnt the first time she got into trouble on a sailboat, that Appel was a stripper, and has been described by associates as "not too bright"



A stripper? She looks like Dog the Fucking Bounty Hunter.

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Catbird » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:29 pm

"If at first you don't succeed, that's one data point." XKCD

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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby HTRN » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:31 pm

rightisright wrote:
HTRN wrote:
Termite wrote:
MarkD wrote:.... so they didn't have to eat ..... each other....


I wouldn't bet on that......... :lol:

More info has come to light, like this wasnt the first time she got into trouble on a sailboat, that Appel was a stripper, and has been described by associates as "not too bright"



A stripper? She looks like Dog the Fucking Bounty Hunter.

Butter face. :ugeek: judging by the pixelated nooda floating around, she's got the hardcore gymrat body that's typical in longtime strippers..I think you're right about motivation, she could have saved herself alot of grief if she had just bought Curtis Stones book and applied for a small business loan. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby HTRN » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Jmm, any thought they were smuggling dope?
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby Rich » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:31 am

Gals gotta do something for her retirement, and it looks like she is past her "sell by" date to go back to stripping.
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Re: 2 women and 2 dogs lost at sea for 5 months rescued today

Postby HTRN » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:23 am

Rich wrote:Gals gotta do something for her retirement, and it looks like she is past her "sell by" date to go back to stripping.

She needs money to restart her farm, the boat was heavily loaded, shes famliar with agriculture, the point of departure was Hawaii, and shes obviously got a few screws loose. How much you wanna bet she grew a coupla tons of Maui wowee and sailed to Cali with it?

And oh, ive seen worse strippers - nothing scarier than the girls that work weekday afternoon.. :shock:
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