National CCW Reciprocity

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MarkD
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by MarkD »

Jered wrote:
Precision wrote:
MarkD wrote: THAT would be a recipe for getting the reciprocity law repealed post-haste.

Here's how it would play out:

1) NJ refuses to allow reciprocity, gets highway funds reduced by 10%

2) NJ reduces actual highway SPENDING by 75%, roads turn even crappier than they already are

3) Politicians say "We're terribly sorry, but the reason the roads have potholes that families can live in is that we refuse to let criminals and terrorists carry guns in our state just because they're allowed to in their own state. We won't want another school shooting you know, it's for the children. If we could JUST get that law repealed we would be able to fix the roads."
Mark,
I disagree. That would get huge play in NJ. It would be a big YAWN out here in fly over country. No Rep or Senator from Wyoming, Tennessee, Florida worth 2 cents (not a demonrat) would spend two seconds or a vote to "fix" New Jersey's pothole or "school shooting" problem.
What's the problem here?

Sincerely,
A Montana Voter

PS. Fuck New Jersey sideways with California.

So you don't think that if CA, NY, NY, MD and IL all banded together to get the law repealed it wouldn't get any traction?
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Vonz90
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by Vonz90 »

Sounds like 10 votes in the Senate - where would the rest of the votes come from? 41 shall issue states - maybe take off one because IL became shall issue by court order- that is roughly 80 votes for.
MarkD
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by MarkD »

Vonz90 wrote:Sounds like 10 votes in the Senate - where would the rest of the votes come from? 41 shall issue states - maybe take off one because IL became shall issue by court order- that is roughly 80 votes for.
You're first assuming that the residents (voters) in those shall-issue states CARE if they can carry in NJ, or if NJ residents can carry if they get a Florida OOS license. Second,it's not just about the votes, it's about the politics. The Senators from NY, CA, NJ, etc have a LOT of pull, and of course the Congressmen from those states carry a LOT of votes. "Well, you know Mr Florida Congressman, things would be more likely to go your way on the legislation you want if we could do something about that CCW Reciprocity".

It's irrelevant anyway, even if CCW Recip passes, the aforementioned states will just ignore it. See gun owners who had their flights rerouted to LaGuardia for weather/mechanical issues and were arrested when they picked up their guns at baggage claim, even AFTER FOPA.

A couple weeks ago I bought new wiper blades, and the place offered free installation. I loaned my pocketknife to the mechanic to open the package, and he said he usually carries one but he got pulled over by a cop, the cop asked him if he had guns or knives in the car, he said he had a pocketknife and the cop took it from him, yelled at him for having it, wrote him a ticket and didn't return the knife. Imagine what such a cop will do if he finds someone CCWing?
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Vonz90
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by Vonz90 »

MarkD wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:Sounds like 10 votes in the Senate - where would the rest of the votes come from? 41 shall issue states - maybe take off one because IL became shall issue by court order- that is roughly 80 votes for.
You're first assuming that the residents (voters) in those shall-issue states CARE if they can carry in NJ, or if NJ residents can carry if they get a Florida OOS license. Second,it's not just about the votes, it's about the politics. The Senators from NY, CA, NJ, etc have a LOT of pull, and of course the Congressmen from those states carry a LOT of votes. "Well, you know Mr Florida Congressman, things would be more likely to go your way on the legislation you want if we could do something about that CCW Reciprocity".

It's irrelevant anyway, even if CCW Recip passes, the aforementioned states will just ignore it. See gun owners who had their flights rerouted to LaGuardia for weather/mechanical issues and were arrested when they picked up their guns at baggage claim, even AFTER FOPA.

A couple weeks ago I bought new wiper blades, and the place offered free installation. I loaned my pocketknife to the mechanic to open the package, and he said he usually carries one but he got pulled over by a cop, the cop asked him if he had guns or knives in the car, he said he had a pocketknife and the cop took it from him, yelled at him for having it, wrote him a ticket and didn't return the knife. Imagine what such a cop will do if he finds someone CCWing?
They care very much if they can travel without having to worry about arrest for random things in fuckwad states. That is why it is being turned into a bill - because the pols keep hearing from constitutes to fix it.
Last edited by Vonz90 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kommander
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by Kommander »

While I'm willing to believe that some states or departments might initially ignore the law I have a hard time believing that they would after a high profile Supreme Court decision. I expect that we will see something very much like what happened in the DOMA case, and if some dumbass cop oversteps the legal boundaries and attacks a legal ccw holder that will only work in our favour.
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randy
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by randy »

Not practical, but would be fun if CCW states passed laws banning LE from GFW States from carrying in their states if they harass their CCW permittees traveling through.

Sorry Mr NJ Super Trooper, but your badge don't mean shit in Texas as far a carrying a piece. If you're on official business you can surrender it to the Desk Sergeant and one of our rookies will escort you and prisoner to the airport. If you don't mouth off too much, we'll ship your pistol to your chief. Otherwise it goes up at the next Sheriff's Auction. :twisted:

Yah, never happen, but I can dream. The look on the face of the first Only One to be treated like a common peon....
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NVGdude
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by NVGdude »

Jered wrote:
Netpackrat wrote:
Precision wrote:the libertarian in me does not want national CCW reciprocity shoved down our throats by the FEDS. The Pragmatist in me wants to shove it down the throats of MD, NJ, CA ... the same way they shove gay marriage etc down our throats. Pun intended.
You don't want the federal government enforcing the Constitution on the states? Do you feel that way about the entire bill of rights, or just the Second Amendment?
Point of order. It's not in the Bill of Rights.
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Presumably he was talking about the 2nd Amendment. Since a permit is not a public Act, record, or judicial proceeding. I can't think of any type of license (law, medical, building permit) which is good in another state without a state to state or compact agreement.
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Termite
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by Termite »

I propose a compromise: CCW will be implemented & enforced as each state sees fit(leaving the federal law on inter-state transportation of firearms, unloaded and cased, intact), if the States can do likewise with marriage and abortion.

Any takers? :lol:
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Precision
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by Precision »

MarkD wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:Sounds like 10 votes in the Senate - where would the rest of the votes come from? 41 shall issue states - maybe take off one because IL became shall issue by court order- that is roughly 80 votes for.
You're first assuming that the residents (voters) in those shall-issue states CARE if they can carry in NJ, or if NJ residents can carry if they get a Florida OOS license. Second,it's not just about the votes, it's about the politics. The Senators from NY, CA, NJ, etc have a LOT of pull, and of course the Congressmen from those states carry a LOT of votes. "Well, you know Mr Florida Congressman, things would be more likely to go your way on the legislation you want if we could do something about that CCW Reciprocity".

It's irrelevant anyway, even if CCW Recip passes, the aforementioned states will just ignore it. See gun owners who had their flights rerouted to LaGuardia for weather/mechanical issues and were arrested when they picked up their guns at baggage claim, even AFTER FOPA.

A couple weeks ago I bought new wiper blades, and the place offered free installation. I loaned my pocketknife to the mechanic to open the package, and he said he usually carries one but he got pulled over by a cop, the cop asked him if he had guns or knives in the car, he said he had a pocketknife and the cop took it from him, yelled at him for having it, wrote him a ticket and didn't return the knife. Imagine what such a cop will do if he finds someone CCWing?


Currently I do not enter (or fly near) non carry states. It would be nice to NOT HAVE to avoid entire parts of the country. I do care. More importantly, 30-60% of your fellow citizens will be happy to have a Florida OOS and the ability to carry. Give the cops a few illegal arrests and either bubba will disobey an illegal cop siezure, on video or The NRA, SFA... with sue those bastards into submission. Or both.

Look at Philly and their complete fight against open carry within city limits. I think it took three low 6 figure settlements, but now they don't arrest law abiding citizens who choose to open carry. It isn't exactly like GA or TN where I've had cops ask, damn your gun is bigger than mine and that looks more comfortable. What holster is that? Is that comfortable all day? But last time I OC'ed in Philly, I only got a few cop glares.
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MarkD
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Re: National CCW Reciprocity

Post by MarkD »

Precision wrote:
MarkD wrote:
Vonz90 wrote:Sounds like 10 votes in the Senate - where would the rest of the votes come from? 41 shall issue states - maybe take off one because IL became shall issue by court order- that is roughly 80 votes for.
You're first assuming that the residents (voters) in those shall-issue states CARE if they can carry in NJ, or if NJ residents can carry if they get a Florida OOS license. Second,it's not just about the votes, it's about the politics. The Senators from NY, CA, NJ, etc have a LOT of pull, and of course the Congressmen from those states carry a LOT of votes. "Well, you know Mr Florida Congressman, things would be more likely to go your way on the legislation you want if we could do something about that CCW Reciprocity".

It's irrelevant anyway, even if CCW Recip passes, the aforementioned states will just ignore it. See gun owners who had their flights rerouted to LaGuardia for weather/mechanical issues and were arrested when they picked up their guns at baggage claim, even AFTER FOPA.

A couple weeks ago I bought new wiper blades, and the place offered free installation. I loaned my pocketknife to the mechanic to open the package, and he said he usually carries one but he got pulled over by a cop, the cop asked him if he had guns or knives in the car, he said he had a pocketknife and the cop took it from him, yelled at him for having it, wrote him a ticket and didn't return the knife. Imagine what such a cop will do if he finds someone CCWing?


Currently I do not enter (or fly near) non carry states. It would be nice to NOT HAVE to avoid entire parts of the country. I do care. More importantly, 30-60% of your fellow citizens will be happy to have a Florida OOS and the ability to carry. Give the cops a few illegal arrests and either bubba will disobey an illegal cop siezure, on video or The NRA, SFA... with sue those bastards into submission. Or both.

Look at Philly and their complete fight against open carry within city limits. I think it took three low 6 figure settlements, but now they don't arrest law abiding citizens who choose to open carry. It isn't exactly like GA or TN where I've had cops ask, damn your gun is bigger than mine and that looks more comfortable. What holster is that? Is that comfortable all day? But last time I OC'ed in Philly, I only got a few cop glares.
Well, I REALLY hope you're right, but I suspect not. At the very best (for the rest of the country) the law will get an addendum saying "Except for NY, NJ and CA and whoever else). Medium? The addendum reads "Except for those states that pass a law saying it's not allowed". Worst? NJ State Trooper shoots CCW holder on sight,a dozen of his fellow officers SWEAR on a stack of Bibles the CCW holder drew first, any video to the contrary magically disappears (perhaps along with the owner of said video, so tragic that they committed suicide by shooting themselves four times in the back of the head). Then the usual suspects will jump up and down yelling about what a bad idea reciprocity is. Oh, and Corey Booker uses it as a springboard into the White House.

As for Philly, compares to NYC or LA it's small, and not too far outside is much more rural (and Conservative). I read a story once in one of the gun magzines about a newly minted NYC cop who was on his way home after his shift, in plain clothes. He accidentally flashed his holstered pistol on the subway (jacket was too short to cover it when he reached up to hold the strap) and the next thing he knew he was on his face on the floor with the muzzle of a fellow cop's pistol against his temple, asking him what the fuck he was doing with a gun. The cop who took him down basically told him that he could have been killed, and it would have been his own fault if he had. The newly minted cop of course AGREED with this sentiment, and promised to be more careful in the future.

Last words on the subject: Plenty of NJ politicians get elected on a platform of "taking on the gun lobby". Former NYC Congressman (Harlem) Charlie Rangel regularly put forth legislation to repeal the Second Amendment, saying this is the only way we can ban guns and make our inner cities safe. Lots of cops LIKE being the only ones allowed to carry, they resent any intrusion on what they see as their personal privilege, and they will do anything they can to keep being special.

Like I said, I'd LOVE to see it, and maybe in ten or twelve generations it'll happen.
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