Military Mainstreams Transgender

[MiddleAgedKen]

Biology dictates that any objective standard which can accurately identify individuals suited to these tasks will eliminate a higher percentage of women than men. Whether or not this blinding flash of the obvious will 'be acceptable' remains to be seen.

Probably eventually, but I think there's a few of Heinlein's Crazy Years yet to run.

[blackeagle603]

Come now, admit it, you really wish Aesop was here to unleash an epic rant.

[Termite]

Come now, admit it, you really wish Aesop was here to unleash an epic rant.

Yeah, what's up with that? Apparently I am "in the dark" about Aesop.........

[skb12172]

Aesop was banned. I saw the post that was the final straw and didn't understand how it was ban worthy. From what others explained, it was not that post per say, as much as it was cumulative.

Yogi appears to be MIA. I kind of miss them both, even though they both had a way of pissing me off on occasion.

[PawPaw]

Aesop was banned. I saw the post that was the final straw and didn't understand how it was ban worthy. From what others explained, it was not that post per say, as much as it was cumulative.

Yogi appears to be MIA. I kind of miss them both, even though they both had a way of pissing me off on occasion.

Aesop was right about PT tests. If you're going to have standards based on the job, you have to enforce those standards. If you're going to have women as rifle-person (I think that's the current job title), then she'd better be able to hump a 60 pound mortar base-plate. If you're going to have women as an armored crew-person, she'd better be able to load a tank with ammo, which involves lifting a 40 lb main gun round over your head 60 times. That's the job. Being an armored crewman is more about heavy-weight strength than sheer endurance like cardio (Although there were lots of times when I was broke-dog-tired). It's hard work, and I don't know many women that could hack it.

As a tank commander, I was real specific with my crew. Pull your weight, or find another job. It's a very simple concept. I didn't have time, energy, or inclination to deal with someone who couldn't do the job. In that regard, I was very fair. And, when I got to the point where I could no longer keep ahead of the crews, I knew it was time for me to retire. My knees thanked me for that decision.

So, in that regard, the Army was an equal opportunity employer. Do the job or get out.

As for Yogi, he last I heard he was in the Air Force. His employed may have decided that they needed him at Keflavik, or Diego Garcia, or some other such asshole place. He may have very good reasons for going silent.

[Netpackrat]

I don't really have anything to add, but I am enjoying the fact that we can have a mature discussion of the topic here, without a lot of bullshit hyperbole.

[First Shirt]

Copy all regarding suicide rates, but a confounding factor there is the general lack of societal acceptance causing isolation and depression... which can be partially mitigated by understanding rather than ostracism.

Granted. But is anorexia treated the same way? If not, why the difference? Both are classified as similar mental disorders, but one gets psychotherapy, and one gets surgery and hormone treatment, (and the suicide rate for post-surgery transgenders is almost twice the rate for pre-surgery). And I'm really not trying to be an ass about this, I'm seriously asking in an effort to understand the difference in handling what seems to be, in theory, two sides of the same coin. (Besides, I was an intel geek, we didn't need to lift anything heavier than a pencil, so all this muscle stuff just seems silly!)

[Vonz90]

It is a bad move and it so for the same reason that integrating women and gays was a bad move. They are starting with the assumption that the only reason it wasn't done was bigotry, and therefore no controls need to be placed on the execution of the policy and any problems which result from the policy are due to th bigotry of those who notice the failure.

This (collectively) will not end well.

[MiddleAgedKen]

As for Yogi, he last I heard he was in the Air Force. His employed may have decided that they needed him at Keflavik, or Diego Garcia, or some other such asshole place. He may have very good reasons for going silent.

Cheyenne Mountain, trying to figure out which red wire to cut before WOPR kills us all. :jacked:

[D5CAV]

When I got into Armor, I had to pass the Armored Crewman's PT test. It was fairly rigorous. In addition to the standard run, pushups, etc, you had to lift a track block on to your back and run 400 yards in a given time. A track block from an M60 series tank weighed upwards of 90 lbs. Then, when you dropped the track block, you had to lift a 40 lb dummy round over your head 60 times. That test separated the men from the boys. This PT test was very job-specific.

I don't recall that test.

It could have been the unit commander's prerogative back in the bad old non-PC Army days. It sounds like a good test, though.

I vaguely recall the old 5 step PT test that I did maybe twice. IIRC it had:
Run dodge and jump that I was Ok with
Crab walk/run that I barely passed
Pull-ups that I was Ok with
Push-ups that I maxed
2 Mile run that I maxed

When I joined, the US Army went on a push for more women, and most women failed that test.

We then went to the 3 step PT test:
Push ups: maxed
Sit ups: maxed
1 mile run: maxed

So we went from a test that I was mid-range to one that I consistently maxed, and I'm no Olympian.

Back on topic, the whole transgender thing solves two PC problems:
Women in combat arms
Women passing the basic job requirements of combat arms

A "transgender" man who self-identifies as a woman gets to check the box for "woman", has the physical ability to meet the job requirements of combat arms, and gets to check the box for "transgender".

It's a win all around!

I'm glad I'm not in today's Army