From the world of socialized medicine...

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randy
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by randy »

Weetabix wrote: See the Surgery Center of Oklahoma. Given prices for given procedures. I'd love to see us go that way.
I need to get an MRI and had a referral from my GP to his preferred location. My employer provided insurance company called me and, while the MRI was pre-approved, they had a list of facilities that (according to them) would provide the same service at a variety of prices. Supposedly the price differences were in overhead costs and "brand name facilities", not quality of service.

The original facility was going to charge around $1,800.00. The facility I'm going to charges around $400.00, which is less than what my co-pay on the other place would be. Dr. didn't raise any flags on changing locations.

We'll see in a week or so and what kind of results they come up with.
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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Weetabix
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Weetabix »

I don't know, Aesop, about the "fuck you, go die" being the only solution. I think there's an entire bag of snakes that need their heads cut off, and I'll bet it would get better. Let me take a swing, and you can rate them as to how much they affect things:

1. Legally granted pharmaceutical monopolies with at least these players:
- FDA
- Congress
- so-called Big Pharma

2. The insurance industry whose first response seems to be, "Claim denied. Our investors need bigger dividends." I remember back in the 80's when only the Japanese and the insurance companies were building big new buildings. Get rid of no co-pay and increase deductibles. It will make people think before they go in, and it will decrease insurance costs. Insurance needs to cover catastrophic events and not sniffles. Maybe covering wellness stuff would make sense to encourage better health and thus less of the alcohol/cigarette stuff you see, but someone would have to inject common sense into it.

3. Congress - I say, GTFO except for enabling prosecuting fraud and active patient endangerment.
- get rid of the EMTALA you mentioned.
- get serious about the border.
- quit telling everyone everything should be "free"

4. Lawyers - Shakespeare may have had the right attitude. Make the lawyers/plaintiffs pay the costs when they lose. Pillory judges/juries with no sense.

5. Universities/medical school - they've colluded with Congress and the banks in providing so much "free" college money that doctors can't get out without staggering student loan debt.

6. Some doctors of at least the following varieties:
- I'm God. Do whatever I say
- I'm scared of lawsuits, have every test under the sun

Congress seems to figure in it a lot, huh?

If we could clean up all that, I opine that medical care would be more affordable. Unfortunately, lots of people make money by making it not affordable, so I don't see how we could clean that up short of a collapse, people being stupid and all.
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Netpackrat
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Netpackrat »

Been saying for years that banning insurance will bring the costs down. The system itself may be complex with a lot of moving parts, but the sources of the problems are not that difficult to understand.
Cognosce teipsum et disce pati

"People come and go in our lives, especially the online ones. Some leave a fond memory, and some a bad taste." -Aesop
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Aesop »

You probably want to beware of certain bargain procedures.
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Just saying.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Aesop »

Weetabix wrote:I don't know, Aesop, about the "fuck you, go die" being the only solution.
I don't think it's the only solution.
But it's the only solution when you turn healthcare over to the government.
{cf. airport security, railroads, mail delivery, veteran's care, home loans, college loans, marriage, child care, and damn near everything they've ever touched, since forever.}
Bitch all you want about Nazis, but at least Dr. Mengele was honest about what he was trying to do.
My gripe is selling socialized medicine as anything but slow-motion euthanasia and self-inflicted genocide.
Because socialism always runs out of other people's money, and no one knows that better than the leading apparatchiks themselves, from the inside of the monkey house.
6. Some doctors of at least the following varieties:
- I'm God. Do whatever I say
Modern medicine as we know it was developed in post-revolutionary France.
Napoleon was great at creating all sorts of soldiers with interesting wounds and diseases, and a decade of war across Europe helped spread that boon to all parts of society. Coupled with the sentiments of the French Revolution, doctors in France developed a marvelous system of hospitals, where they grouped and treated people with similar complaints: gunshots, stabbings, broken legs, abdominal pain, etc., all under separate rooves, so they could use statistical data to determine empirically the best outcomes in treating similar disease pathways, and then standardizing practice accordingly. It was brilliant. And, courtesy of the kneejerk largesse of "liberte, egalite, fraternite", all provided absolutely free of charge to the citizens.
There was but one caveat: you had to follow precisely and exactly the course of treatment the physician prescribed. Period.
Refusal was handled very gently: they lifted your pallet off the sick bed, carried it out to the curb, set you gently alongside the gutter outside the hospital, and they wished you "Bon chance, and bon voyage, Messr. God be with you!"
We should follow the exact same pattern here, nowadays.
If you want to be your own doctor, go right on ahead. And DLTDHYITAOYWO.
(Dr. Jenny McCarthy, call your office.)
- I'm scared of lawsuits, have every test under the sun
That would be every doctor practicing in the United States.
If you don't like that, there are several excellent replacements available:
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Seriously, you're shooting the victim there.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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Weetabix
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Weetabix »

Aesop wrote:
- I'm scared of lawsuits, have every test under the sun
That would be every doctor practicing in the United States.
If you don't like that, there are several excellent replacements available:
{snip}
Seriously, you're shooting the victim there.
Not intentionally. I meant that they're a contributing factor to costs, not that I considered them egregiously craven. Note that I had lawyers further up the line.

I was thinking back to a woman I used to work with. Her baby was way undersized according to the charts.

Me: You (at 5'3") and your husband (wiry and about 5'6") are the giants of your families, right?

Her: Yes.

Me: And all of her development is on par except for height and weight?

Her: Yes. Well, she's actually ahead on a lot of things.

Me: She's the child of two small families. Give her time.

(a bazillion expensive tests later)

Her: The doctor has concluded that she's probably exhibiting reasonable traits given the genetics of her lineage, and she's probably where she needs to be.

Me: What do you know?
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Aesop »

Okay.
And the doctor sought her ought, at home, on his own time, and told her than unless she dragged her child repeatedly to undergo all these tests, he would report her to CPS?

Or, mayhap, was it another iteration of being a Stage Mom cross-pollinated with Munchausen By Proxy, wherein the practitioner couldn't simply tell a twit of a parent to Eff to the Hell Off without the exact fear of legal action in the first place?

If Mommie Dearest had been forced to pay full retail, that particular snipe hunt would have been cancelled due to lack of interest.

But since Mommie's insurance company was footing the bills, what matter to her that she torture her child exhaustively to self-aggrandize and fulfill her wants rather than acceding to the dictates of Nature?
I can only wonder what sort of hen-pecked husband was too shrew-terrified to tell her "Honey, switch to decaf, and get another hobby - NOW!"

The defense rests.

And if she was on the same insurance plan you were on at one time, your back hurts too, because you and your co-workers were carrying her, and funding her quixotic exercises with your premium dollars.

Welcome to my world. :D

This whole tale is also reason number 3,000,012 on why the Nineteenth Amendment should be repealed, forthwith.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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randy
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by randy »

Aesop wrote:You probably want to beware of certain bargain procedures.
Image
Image
Just saying.
Actually a concern of mine, but this is nothing irreversable or time critical so I can afford to add some risk on this one.

But I do appreciate the advice/reminder
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
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Weetabix
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Weetabix »

Aesop wrote:Or, mayhap, was it another iteration of being a Stage Mom cross-pollinated with Munchausen By Proxy, wherein the practitioner couldn't simply tell a twit of a parent to Eff to the Hell Off without the exact fear of legal action in the first place?
Could have been this one.
If Mommie Dearest had been forced to pay full retail, that particular snipe hunt would have been cancelled due to lack of interest.
This is my dream scenario.
But since Mommie's insurance company was footing the bills, what matter to her that she torture her child exhaustively to self-aggrandize and fulfill her wants rather than acceding to the dictates of Nature?
This is my nightmare scenario.
The defense rests.
I don't remember what my prosecutorial opening statement was. I think we probably agree. I was just illustrating a situation I'd like to see go away.
And if she was on the same insurance plan you were on at one time, your back hurts too, because you and your co-workers were carrying her, and funding her quixotic exercises with your premium dollars.
Totally agree.
Welcome to my world. :D
Please, no! :o
This whole tale is also reason number 3,000,012 on why the Nineteenth Amendment should be repealed, forthwith.
I find your ideas interesting, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. :D
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by First Shirt »

Been through this mess with a granddaughter. She's going to be nine, and she's about average size for a five-year-old. Since her dad is 5'7" and her mom is 5-foot-nothing, nobody is surprised, except the pediatrician who wanted to send her for every test in the book for "arrested development." Especially since there are TWO insurance plans to send the bills to. (Daughter's plan from work, and her hubby's Tricare, since he's 100% disabled, and medically retired from the Navy).

Daughter keeps says, "Given who her parents are, and that she's above-average intelligent, and has the reflexes of a mongoose, I'm thinking that she's just gonna be short. Never figured on having a WNBA star in the family anyway. So let's just don't bother." She's been reported to CPS twice, once by the (former) pediatrician, and once by the school. So far, they still have custody, and nobody's in jail. (Although I did come close.)

So it's not always the patient's (or patient's parent's fault).
But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Lindy Cooper Wisdom
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