From the world of socialized medicine...

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PawPaw
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by PawPaw »

The Washington Post is starting to see the disaster that is our health care system.
Obamacare disaster will be Obama’s enduring domestic legacy
Their headline, not mine.
The president promised Obamacare would provide “more choice, more competition, lower costs.” Instead, Americans have less choice, less competition and higher costs.
This is not a feel-good piece for the masses, and I'm surprised that the media is finally noticing what a disaster the Obama era has been.

But, Like others, I am heartened by all the racial healing during the Obama era. {/sarc}
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randy
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by randy »

Weetabix wrote:Socialized medicine doesn't seem to work anywhere it's tried.
Depends on how you define the term "work'

Increased control of the population, more opportunities for jobs that require no actual skills to hand out, being able to pick your favorite constituency as a winner regardless of performance, then socialized medicine works like a charm.

If your actual goal is to increase the quality and effectiveness of health care....
...even before I read MHI, my response to seeing a poster for the stars of the latest Twilight movies was "I see 2 targets and a collaborator".
rightisright
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by rightisright »

My father died in BC because of the long wait times. He was on a cruise ship headed to Alaska from Seattle with his favorite grandson. Shortly after they left, he suffered a heart attack. The doctors on the ship got him stabilized and he was actually improving. Then they decided to transfer him to the closest hospital (Vancouver) instead of returning to Seattle. After he was transferred by ambulance from the dock to the hospital, it took 3 hours just go get a nurse to re-attach his IV's. It was 8 hours until a doctor actually saw him. By then his body systems were shutting down and it was too late. He died. I consider it negligent homicide. But, we're not allowed to sue the government run system. Oh well, too bad, so sad. Sorry for your loss.

Every time I talk about this my blood pressure spikes. Gotta stop that.
Wow. Unfuckingreal. My condolences.
BDK
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by BDK »

It tragic what you went through. My father's initial heart attack wasn't diagnosed for 6 weeks while his doctor kept insisting that he had a chest cold - that he had had a clean stress test the week before was part of the issue.

It's one of the reasons I want to see the rapid "lab-on-a-chip" products through... And either need to find a way to develop enough money to start strong-arming things through or go get a PhD so I can fight for...
Greg
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Greg »

MarkD wrote:I find it amusing (is a schadenfreude kind of way) that the very people I know who cheered Obamacare as a wonderful thing are now complaining about higher premiums and fewer doctors.

Of course I abstain from telling them "I told you so!"

Sometimes.
Back in the day, fall of '08 or so, one of my more intelligent and thoughtful coworkers asked me who I was voting for and why. He explained he was leaning towards Obama, because of his promises to save money, lower taxes and make medical care cheaper.

I told him politicians can promise what they like, but the reasonable expectation (from similar politicians and promises in the past) was that if Obama were elected, healthcare would become worse and more expensive, gov't in general would grow enormously, taxes would likely go up and the economy would struggle. That I was voting for the other guy, even though, war hero or not he's an asshole, for sane economic reasons. And the general good.

Coworker was willing to listen, but said he'd have to do his own research. I suggested looking up long-term results of socialized anything, as socialism was the Obama program.

I think I called that one. Never did find out who coworker voted for. Our responsibilities didn't overlap, good guy and I liked him but we rarely interacted.
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Jered
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Jered »

Aesop wrote: If that were a family member of mine, I'd be willing to risk the Canadian justice system in order to eliminate a few members from the Canadian medical system, probably by high-powered firearms, if only for the additional lives it would save.
The Canadian justice system is a joke.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
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Termite
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Termite »

I spent the morning at my family doctor's office. He is one of the last of the independent "holdouts".

He told me that there is no one major problem; that the system is broken from top to bottom. And that one of the biggest problems is rampant greed, from all parties.

For instance: Doxycycline, a very common antibiotic, has seen prices skyrocket in the last few years. I don't mean double, triple, or quadruple. I mean 2500%-4000% increase. Why? Aesop? Anyone?

And if there is a poster child for pharmaceutical company CEOs guilty of depraved indifference to human life, Martin Shkreli is front & center.

But it's not just the drug companies; my doctor pays about $300 for a shingles vaccine for Medicare patients, and Medicare will only reimburse him about half of his cost. HALF.

Dr. Johnson thinks the system will collapse in the next 10 years or so, and that America will wind up with a 2-tier health care system: independent private care for people who can pay for it, and rationed socialized health care for the masses.
"Life is a bitch. Shit happens. Adapt, improvise, and overcome. Acknowledge it, and move on."
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Jered
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Jered »

And from England
Almost 13,000 operations and more than 110,000 outpatient appointments were canceled, according to NHS England. Doctors in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland aren’t involved in the dispute as the health-care systems in those countries are run by the regional governments there.
Some of the doctors went on strike.
The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
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Weetabix
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Weetabix »

Termite wrote:For instance: Doxycycline, a very common antibiotic, has seen prices skyrocket in the last few years. I don't mean double, triple, or quadruple. I mean 2500%-4000% increase. Why? Aesop? Anyone?
The pharmaceutical industry, in collusion with the FDA, has a monopoly on pharmaceuticals in the US. Remember the woman in AZ? NM? who was bitten by a scorpion? The same antivenom that cost $30,000/vial here cost $100/vial just across the border in Mexico. See here for more instances.
But it's not just the drug companies; my doctor pays about $300 for a shingles vaccine for Medicare patients, and Medicare will only reimburse him about half of his cost. HALF.
When you are forced by legislation to pump as much money through a system as we are, inefficiencies, fraud, and unintended incentives are bound to occur. The standard comparison between medical costs (regulated, legislated, etc) vs. tech costs (free market) is instructive.
Dr. Johnson thinks the system will collapse in the next 10 years or so, and that America will wind up with a 2-tier health care system: independent private care for people who can pay for it, and rationed socialized health care for the masses.
I agree. Though the independent care might not be as bad. See the Surgery Center of Oklahoma. Given prices for given procedures. I'd love to see us go that way.
Note to self: start reading sig lines. They're actually quite amusing. :D
Aesop
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Re: From the world of socialized medicine...

Post by Aesop »

Termite wrote:He told me that there is no one major problem; that the system is broken from top to bottom. And that one of the biggest problems is rampant greed, from all parties.
Yeah. Starting with patients, who seldom pay much if any of the cost for anything, and thus have no wild fucking clue what they're ordering from the menu.
Step one: Ban insurance, and post the prices for everything online.
Why?
Let's start simple.
Twenty years ago, Zofran was an anti-nausea drug used mainly for cancer chemotherapy patients, and cost Some Ridiculous Amount per dose. Then it was approved for anyone with nausea, because as it turns out, it's very effective, and generally has the fewest side affects for patients.
So for the historians in the audience, tell me please, how in blistering fuck we dealt with the millions of people annually who died from throwing up, shriveled up like raisins because they got a case of the shits because of the Food Court two-Step? There must be vast graveyards full of people who just puked and shit their guts out in the 1950s, '60s, and '70s, right? No? NO?!? You mean that never happened?!?
So then WTH are there dozens of patients, every night, who line up in the ED everywhere, every night for the "medical emergency" of puking, sometimes all of ONE time???
Q:Take a guess what the average patient is paying for the "lifesaving" treatment of about $20 worth of Zofran, $10 worth (1 liter) of saline solution, and $15 worth of plastic syringes and tubing to deliver it?
A:$0-$50, and the mean is around $10.
Trick answer: you're also paying for your share of half an hour of my time($20-30) plus the cost to build, equip, and maintain this fabulous palace of modern medicine (call it $500, or 1/100,000 x $50M).
Q:So now, guess what the insurance company is paying for your $10-$50 visit?
A: Low-ball number, >$1000-$1500.
So, if you were told you had to spend $1500 of your own money, or stay home and puke for 24 hours, and probably turn out the same either way in >90% of cases, which would you chose?

And if that shell hit too close to your foxhole, I urge you to man the fuck up and take it.
For instance: Doxycycline, a very common antibiotic, has seen prices skyrocket in the last few years. I don't mean double, triple, or quadruple. I mean 2500%-4000% increase. Why? Aesop? Anyone?
Link: Why generics cost so much
TL;dr answer:
Consolidation.Shortages. Collusion.Prices were too low to begin with. Because they can.
Termite wrote:But it's not just the drug companies; my doctor pays about $300 for a shingles vaccine for Medicare patients, and Medicare will only reimburse him about half of his cost. HALF.
He should thank his lucky stars. The usual Medicare reimbursement ratio is 2%.
So when the hospital bills Medicare $1500, they get $30. And it costs, even at fair market cost with no markup, $575.
Now guess why EDs and hospitals are closing, and doctors are getting out of practice.
Then ask me why your doctor or your parents' doctor isn't taking any more Medicare patients, and never will, and why no one not insane accepts ObamaCare insurance cards.
Then see if you can figure out why all those m*****f*****s end up in the ED, where because of EMTALA we have to see everyone.
See if you can guess your wait time when everyone is in my ED, and you have a pain in your chest even bigger than the one in my ass, nightly, for the last 20 years.
Guess your outcome when it takes 4 hours to get to you before that magic time-to-cath-lab kicks in.

We are becoming Canada's health care system. QED
Dr. Johnson thinks the system will collapse in the next 10 years or so, and that America will wind up with a 2-tier health care system: independent private care for people who can pay for it, and rationed socialized health care for the masses.
We have that now.
The thing is, the insurance card you've had since 2010 or 2012 is for exactly that rationed socialized health care, unless you paid cash for your medical care across the board.

And now you're paying even more, and getting less and worse care than you did before, to subsidize the drunks, junkies, illegal aliens and welfare queens - and their entire monstrous families, who never paid for anything, and never will.

Viva amnesty and affirmative action by any other name!

And if, to solve this problem, they told me I could kill any ten patients a night with no consequences, I would fight tooth and nail for 50 more slots each night. I couldn't solve the problem single-handedly, but I could make quite a dent if it were run as a nationwide trial for about 6 months.

Bonus slide: Guess how much time I waste each night treating people effed up by cigarettes and alcohol, and see if you can guess why I think there should be a death penalty for so much as advocating legalizing even more drugs.
You want to make medical treatment a cash on the counter business for 100% of society first, we can talk about "personal choice".
Currently the IRS has its head about two feet up my ass looking for the money to pay for those same people, and has since at least 1964.

Canada is merely being honest about telling the society "Fuck you, go die, eh?"
We've been sneaking up on the exact same damned thing for 50+ years, and telling enormous whoppers about it all along.

/rant #whymybackhurts

Double bonus "This-is-No-shit" slide:
Had a guy who was shot in his driveway by a drive-by gang banger 25 years ago, been a quadriplegic the entire time since as a result, and has recently developed Grand Canyon-sized non-healing ass sores that are going to turn septic and kill him - probably after a few $500,000@ trips to ICU - because government disability and medical assistance won't replace his broken quarter-century old 1990-era wheelchair, nor get him a bed any better than the 1" thick foam mattress one that gave him the ass sores in the first place, after 24 years without any problems, won't cover any home health care at all, nor let the hospital spot him - as our optional charity gift - the required $75 (yes, seventy-five whole dollars!) co-pay for a new bed that would prevent the sores in the first place.
What A Country!

Un-be-effing-lievable, and I saw it with my own eyes.
Last edited by Aesop on Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental, justifiable, and praiseworthy." -Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
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