Sorry Leftist Americans, Your Swedish Utopia Does Not Exist

[Erik]

I think this is worth reading for anyone interested.

Via Instapundit
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/sor ... 00785.html

As a Swede living in the U.S., one of the most common reactions when I tell people where I am from is the question of why I would ever leave Sweden in the first place. Many Americans seem to truly believe that life in the Scandinavian countries is superior to that in virtually all other places on earth, and that the Nordic welfare state model is the magical formula that explains it all. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont recently echoed these beliefs when he said that he wants America to be more like Scandinavia, where both incomes and equality are higher, the middle class stronger, both education and health care are publically funded, and even graduate school is free.

Sanders is not alone. The Scandinavian countries are regularly praised for their income equality, quality of life, gender equality, maternal care and many other traits, not just by leftist politicians and activists, but also by left-leaning economists like Paul Krugman. The Scandinavian model, they believe, is the ultimate proof that you can combine a high-growth economy with a generous welfare state.

The problem is that much of the praise is wrong. . . .

Click through to read the whole thing, which I think is a very good description of why the model seemed to work relatively well in Scandinavian countries. For those that are forced to argue with leftists, I think this is required reading.

It was because of the cultural values that was formed way before the welfare state was implemented. But those values get eroded as the welfare state takes over.

[Steamforger]

A friend emigrated to Norway some number of years back. I speak with him on a fairly regular basis and he has some horror stories about Norway.

Like close to 50% income tax, 25% VAT, 12% on unprepared food, 100% on cars, 24% on just about anything else, $6 per gallon of gas, etc. It goes on and on. He also mentioned that Norway has some of the cheapest power in the world, owing to lots of Hydro Electric facilities. The reason his electric bill is $300/month is the utility company hits him with a "lease" fee for the power lines from his house to the grid. He's in an older house and having some trouble fixing things. It's not that he doesn't know how, but you shall hire a licensed electrician to change something as simple as an outlet in Norway. If they inspect your house and determine you did your own work, they'll cut power to your place until you fix the gigs. No power in a Norway winter sounds awful.... He also related an interesting story about self defense in Norway. It seems that a trucker had stopped for the night at a mom and pop motel, checked in, and gone to the bar. In the meantime, a police officer on vacation with his girlfriend stops, checks in and goes to bed. The hotel accidentally checked them both into the same room. Drunk trucker stumbles down the hall to the room and finds a naked girl in his bed and proceeds to force some sexy times. Boyfriend cop comes out of the bathroom and beats his ass. Police are called. Trucker is hit with attempted rape or sexual battery, whichever it was. The cop was arrested and charged with battery.

Cops arrested and charged a guy because he fought the guy attempting to rape his girlfriend.

No, thank you.

He does have some good to say. The people seem friendly. Per capita gun ownership is very high (just don't ever use one in self defense) at about 35-40 per 100 people, and the country is very beautiful. That's about where it ends.

Yep. Meant 100 people. And yes, the ladies are VERY easy on the eyes.

[Jered]

He does have some good to say. The people seem friendly. Per capita gun ownership is very high (just don't ever use one in self defense) at about 35-40 per 100,000 people, and the country is very beautiful. That's about where it ends.

Have you ever seen their wimmenfolk?

Did you mean 100 people? The US has 88 guns per 100 people.

[Steamforger]

Fixed it. Norwegian wimmenfolk are very, very pretty. My friend is on his 4th Norwegian wife. They are apparently easy to get and hard to hold.

[HTRN]

Per capita gun ownership is very high (just don't ever use one in self defense) at about 35-40 per 100 people

According to the Small Arms Survey 2007, it's 31.3, making it #10 in the world.

[Aesop]

They also leave out that the Scandinavian model is getting ever worse, as outside immigrants pour in to take advantage of the welfare freebies, and are out-breeding the natives something like 3 to 1. Mr. Ponzi, call your office.

No bonus points for guessing which Religion of Peace(tm) most of the newcomers adhere to.

Demographics are destiny.

[Erik]

They also leave out that the Scandinavian model is getting ever worse, as outside immigrants pour in to take advantage of the welfare freebies, and are out-breeding the natives something like 3 to 1. Mr. Ponzi, call your office.

No bonus points for guessing which Religion of Peace(tm) most of the newcomers adhere to.

Demographics are destiny.

That was pretty much the point of the article, and why I used past tense.

The whole point is that there is nothing magical about the system itself that makes it work. You cant take the Scandinavian model and move it to any country and expect it to work as it did in Scandinavia. This is what a lot of leftists argue would be a great thing, "just do the same thing in the US, and everything will be great", but the reason the model ever worked in Scandinavia was because of the pre-existing culture.

As the article says, the culture here was based in rural values, the people were Lutheran, hard working, honest, and the social pressure to "do the right and proper thing" was extremely strong. A man was measured by how he handled himself, and it was considered shameful to take any form of handouts, even if they were allowed by law. (The government initially had to work a lot to get people to actually accept any of the benefits given, most people felt it was for "the poor", and noone would admit that they were poor.)
This culture started to fade in the 70's. It's still present to some extent, but you need to know older people to really see it. (I've had store owners in rural areas refuse to sell me stuff because they didn't have correct change at hand and "I've never ever taken a dime too much from anyone, and I'm not going to start now!")

But now you have several generations that has been raised to look at the State for money if they dont have it, and to try and look for benefits before they look for employment. This is combined with immigration of people that have no problem taking as much benefits as they can, and have a culture where this is totally cool and something to be pursued.
The result is pretty obvious, but the underlying Scandinavian cultural aspects will make it take a while.

[Erik]

Per capita gun ownership is very high (just don't ever use one in self defense) at about 35-40 per 100 people

According to the Small Arms Survey 2007, it's 31.3, making it #10 in the world.

And Finland and Sweden is right up there with Norway. Denmark is a bit different geographically and has lower numbers.
Note that this is the civilian registered legal gun ownership, in countries where all guns must be registered. As I've written about before, there's an unknown number of guns owned by civilians (not including criminals), that just didn't bother to register them. And then theres also the illegal guns that criminals use for daily shootings.
I've seen german surveys that there are an estimated 4 illegal guns for every legal one, and I see no reason why that estimate would be different in Scandinavia.

As for the other things written about Norway, the same is pretty much true for the rest of Scandinavia. High taxes, lots of regulation, and difficult to claim self defense.

As for the self defense, it's actually not the laws that are tough, but the courts. The laws are written similar to the US laws I've seen, you can use appropriate force to defend yourself or others from harm. However the courts tend to rule that any force above taking the goblin by the hand and gently lead him away is too much force, and convict for assault. I can only think of one case where a person causing any type of harm while defending themselves successfully claimed self defense. (That was a teenage girl that bit the ear off of a big guy trying to rape her.) There are however a few cases where the aggressor managed to get charges reduces because he was "afraid of the victim, and acted in self defense". (This despite the victim never doing anything but talk)

[MarkD]

Fixed it. Norwegian wimmenfolk are very, very pretty. My friend is on his 4th Norwegian wife. They are apparently easy to get and hard to hold.

Danger, danger Will Robinson!

My Mom was of Norwegian descent. Mules used to say among themselves "Boy, that woman is STUBBORN." An old girlfriend told me if I was any more stubborn I could be honorary Italian, and I'm easy-going compared to my Mom. In my experience, you do NOT want to piss off a Squarehead woman, you'll live to regret it but not for long.

[skb12172]

Per capita gun ownership is very high (just don't ever use one in self defense) at about 35-40 per 100 people

According to the Small Arms Survey 2007, it's 31.3, making it #10 in the world.

And Finland and Sweden is right up there with Norway. Denmark is a bit different geographically and has lower numbers.
Note that this is the civilian registered legal gun ownership, in countries where all guns must be registered. As I've written about before, there's an unknown number of guns owned by civilians (not including criminals), that just didn't bother to register them. And then theres also the illegal guns that criminals use for daily shootings.
I've seen german surveys that there are an estimated 4 illegal guns for every legal one, and I see no reason why that estimate would be different in Scandinavia.

As for the other things written about Norway, the same is pretty much true for the rest of Scandinavia. High taxes, lots of regulation, and difficult to claim self defense.

As for the self defense, it's actually not the laws that are tough, but the courts. The laws are written similar to the US laws I've seen, you can use appropriate force to defend yourself or others from harm. However the courts tend to rule that any force above taking the goblin by the hand and gently lead him away is too much force, and convict for assault. I can only think of one case where a person causing any type of harm while defending themselves successfully claimed self defense. (That was a teenage girl that bit the ear off of a big guy trying to rape her.) There are however a few cases where the aggressor managed to get charges reduces because he was "afraid of the victim, and acted in self defense". (This despite the victim never doing anything but talk)

And this, combined with the previous posts, is how a culture collapses.