WI police chief compares gun violence to Ebola, wants search

[Aesop]

It's worse than even that.

While they're looking around the house - with your consent - they notice a few other things.
Little Jimmy doesn't have any guns in his room, but they find an eagle feather, and a stone arrowhead. Your Christmas lights are pugged into a plug splitter, and your E-bay receipt is sitting on the desk. And they use the john after checking your bathroom out and finding no weapons.

Within the hour, federal agents swarm into the house, and Jimmy is charged with trafficking in prohibited wildlife items, and desecrating Native American burial sites, both federal felonies. As they're explaining this to you, they also notice your grandmother's piano, and you and the missus get hooked up for violations of the federal International Ivory Trafficking Act. While they've got you there in cuffs on your couch, the IRS pops by to notify you that they'll be charging you with tax evasion for unreported income from your E-bay sales, and they seize your computers. The fire department shows up to cite you for an unlawful wiring connection and nuisance hazard, and they stuff that summons into your shirt pocket, since your hands are busy behind your back. On your way to the cruiser, the city building inspectors pile on with a notice that you have a non-compliant high-gallon-flush toilet, which is another building code violation. They tell you not to worry, as they'll be shutting your water off and ripping it out while you're gone, as well as going through the place for any other code violations.

None of the family can make bail, not least of which because the city has slapped a lien on your property pending payment of code violation fines, and then you'll have to see whether the IRS is going to take a whack at it. You and the wife lose your jobs sitting in jail, your son is in juvie, and your other kids become foster children as wards of the state. In a few months, long before your cases come to trial, everyone elects to end the nightmare and take plea bargains. As a family of felons, no one can find jobs, the kids are stuck in foster care because Child Protective Services now deems you unfit parents, and you and the wife agree to divorce so she can get WIC, and maybe get custody back of your youngest.

After a couple years in juvie, your son graduates from being a minor delinquent to a first-class felon. You're alternating between collecting aluminum cans and selling a pint of blood now and again, using Section 8 money to pay for transient hotel room until the money runs out, then it's back under the bridge rolled up in newspapers for you, as there's not much market for middle-aged white-collar criminals in most occupational fields.

But it's okay, the police helped you out, and after all, you consented to it.

[308Mike]

It's worse than even that.

While they're looking around the house - with your consent - they notice a few other things.
Little Jimmy doesn't have any guns in his room, but they find an eagle feather, and a stone arrowhead. Your Christmas lights are pugged into a plug splitter, and your E-bay receipt is sitting on the desk. And they use the john after checking your bathroom out and finding no weapons.

Within the hour, federal agents swarm into the house, and Jimmy is charged with trafficking in prohibited wildlife items, and desecrating Native American burial sites, both federal felonies. As they're explaining this to you, they also notice your grandmother's piano, and you and the missus get hooked up for violations of the federal International Ivory Trafficking Act. While they've got you there in cuffs on your couch, the IRS pops by to notify you that they'll be charging you with tax evasion for unreported income from your E-bay sales, and they seize your computers. The fire department shows up to cite you for an unlawful wiring connection and nuisance hazard, and they stuff that summons into your shirt pocket, since your hands are busy behind your back. On your way to the cruiser, the city building inspectors pile on with a notice that you have a non-compliant high-gallon-flush toilet, which is another building code violation. They tell you not to worry, as they'll be shutting your water off and ripping it out while you're gone, as well as going through the place for any other code violations.

None of the family can make bail, not least of which because the city has slapped a lien on your property pending payment of code violation fines, and then you'll have to see whether the IRS is going to take a whack at it. You and the wife lose your jobs sitting in jail, your son is in juvie, and your other kids become foster children as wards of the state. In a few months, long before your cases come to trial, everyone elects to end the nightmare and take plea bargains. As a family of felons, no one can find jobs, the kids are stuck in foster care because Child Protective Services now deems you unfit parents, and you and the wife agree to divorce so she can get WIC, and maybe get custody back of your youngest.

After a couple years in juvie, your son graduates from being a minor delinquent to a first-class felon. You're alternating between collecting aluminum cans and selling a pint of blood now and again, using Section 8 money to pay for transient hotel room until the money runs out, then it's back under the bridge rolled up in newspapers for you, as there's not much market for middle-aged white-collar criminals in most occupational fields.

But it's okay, the police helped you out, and after all, you consented to it.

What's REALLY scary is that I've heard that almost exact story more than once - but NONE in San Diego (I believe they were in L.A. or nearby environs or around San Frankornhole). I haven't heard of any recently, but I recall reading about them (but the situations weren't exact, but they were pretty close - and I distinctly recall thinking WTF????) several years ago. AFAIK, it could be mis-reporting, people getting their facts wrong (GEE, REALLY???), or some other printing on the Internet, but I recall being shocked at how everything went down, and it helped prompt a major change in attitude of how all these agencies could REALLY screw over someone for a VERY MINOR violation of the law and they wind up losing EVERYTHING when piled upon each other. We usually only did things like this to shut down a major drug house, NOT some little possessor who decided to share his stash with another druggie.

As I've said for years: the TRUE value in ANY piece of legislation is NOT ONLY in how it is used in it's ORIGINAL INTENT, but how else it can (and WILL BE) ABUSED once others get ahold of it and start applying it to situations it was NOT INTENDED TO ADDRESS. The law's value is not only for what GOOD it does (as intended), but also in how others may or will abuse the legislation as written even though it was NEVER INTENDED to be used in such a manner!!! There is GOOD AND BAD in the application in EVERY piece if legislation, and MANY simply overlook the potential for abuse and rush to push the legislation through - and then are surprised and shocked at how their pet legislation is now being used to abuse people it was never supposed to address!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

[skb12172]

Except that it really isn't like in any way the same thing. I would go as far as to say that such a comparison means you need to re-evaluate your meaning of the word "Cheese".

Do you not actually understand that reference? At various points government has actually, literally, handed out cheese. Various meddlings governments have propped up farm prices by buying things, like cheese, at artificially high prices. Gov't has then offloaded said cheese as aid to the poor.

To the poor and/or old folks. I remember many of the residents in my grandmother's retirement community getting government cheese, when I was a kid. It was packaged and looked like velveeta.

[Termite]

...... and Jimmy is charged with trafficking in prohibited wildlife items......

While Aesop might be stretching things a slight amount on some of what he wrote, he is not wrong.

There was, not many years ago, a similiar case in Monroe, LA, regarding protected song birds. A painting by a local artist, displayed at a wildlife expo, contained an actual blue jay feather which the artist have found in her yard. Blue Jays are protected under the Federal Migratory Bird Act. The artist was questioned by wildlife agents on the origin of the feather. When she explained how she obtained it, the agents told her to remove the feather from the painting(damaging the painting) and throw it outside, or they would confiscate the painting and charge her.

[JAG2955]

Exactly why I said the things I said as well. The average American still commits something like three felonies a day. And you want to bring cops into your house?

Better hope that little junior wasn't using your computer to illegally download music, that your truck isn't leaking oil into a storm drain, or your bathtub pictures of your new nephew don't count as child porn.

[Weetabix]

The cops offered. No one needs to accept.

The people who invite them in are seriously broken as Greg said. And if the cops find other stuff... well, they were invited in.

Okay.
So in your mind, that would make this sort of thing legal too, as normal custom and practice:
(image deleted, though funny)
We'll just set aside every state's medical practice act in any cases where people go there, "because any victims consented to set it aside"...?

You just stretched that analogy so hard I heard it snap from here.

[Weetabix]

The people who invite them in are seriously broken as Greg said. And if the cops find other stuff... well, they were invited in.

Yeah, but they'll fuck you at every opportunity.

"I see that your 14.5 barrel appears to have been pinned and welded, but I'm going to put it in a vise, and wrench on your muzzle device with this pipe wrench with a six foot cheater bar. You'd better hope it holds."

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's not about how good something could turn out to be. It's about how your worst enemy would use it against you.

If a voluntary search is just a tool, it's a bush hog when a weedwacker would do. My "social support network" is NOT the government. It's my friends, family, and the church. The community, not the government.

"Your honor, these voluntary searches worked so well, we decided to make them mandatory!" No, it's not hyperbole, or a strawman. It's what happens in government.

Good point, and I don't dispute any of it. The government always offers inducements to entice us into giving up liberty.

I would personally never take them up on this offer. But they've broken no laws by offering, and neither does anyone who accepts. Freedom is a bit dangerous.

[Weetabix]

...... and Jimmy is charged with trafficking in prohibited wildlife items......

While Aesop might be stretching things a slight amount on some of what he wrote, he is not wrong.

There was, not many years ago, a similiar case in Monroe, LA, regarding protected song birds. A painting by a local artist, displayed at a wildlife expo, contained an actual blue jay feather which the artist have found in her yard. Blue Jays are protected under the Federal Migratory Bird Act. The artist was questioned by wildlife agents on the origin of the feather. When she explained how she obtained it, the agents told her to remove the feather from the painting(damaging the painting) and throw it outside, or they would confiscate the painting and charge her.

This is what I was referring to when I said,

I'd bet that if people took the cops up on this and things went sideways for a few people from other discoveries, the people who would never want or need to invite them in will feel confirmed in their convictions. The people thinking of inviting them would think twice.

[Combat Controller]

Remember everyone, we are all friends here.

[Weetabix]

Remember everyone, we are all friends here.

I must have missed something. This all sounds like spirited discussion. Of course, I'm socially oblivious, too.