Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

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Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:51 pm

Story here.

Video footage of the interaction between nurse Alex Wubbels and Salt Lake City police Detective Jeff Payne on July 26 at University Hospital in Salt Lake City shows the nurse calmly explaining to the detective that blood cannot be taken without a warrant from an unconscious patient unless he or she consents or that individual has been arrested.


“I’m leaving now — with her — anybody who wants to prevent that, that’s your option,” Payne says. “So, take your hand off her, please.”


From what I can find in a few minutes browsing Utah's criminal law, I can't find anything which requires a medical provider to assist the police with a blood draw. From this video, I'm not sure that the cop had the legal authority to arrest her, either.

Fucking "respect mah authoritah" imbecile.

Hospitals can also be sued for cooperating with police searches. Of course, this cop has also probably alienated every single nurse in Salt Lake City, so, none of them will ever want to do a blood draw for him.

If he had no legal authority to arrest the nurse, he needs to be charged with kidnapping, investigated by the FBI, and charged with 18 US Code 242.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Steamforger » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:06 am

KSL reports that the nurse was released without being charged. The Defective has been placed on admin leave, and the DA's office is investigating.

I'm not guessing much will come out of this except nurse sues SLCPD and pays off house and student loans. The Defective gets a paid vacation. SLCPD announces a policy review and revisions being made "so this never happens again" until next time. If the Defective is fired, he'll be picked up by a smaller, local PD or the SO because he represents a large savings of training funds.

What he needs is to be taken out back and whipped with a fan belt.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby scipioafricanus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:11 am

I was just watching this and getting very mad. Officer Dick needs to be fired and his pension revoked.

Plus my understanding is the guy whose blood they want is a driver that was hurt in their pursuit of another suspect. At one point in the longer video, the nurse says they just pumped him full of painkillers. No wonder they want the blood now; they can say he was high on goofballs so they aren't responsible.

So what do you think would have happened if someone stepped in and asserted that it was an illegal arrest?
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Steamforger » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:13 am

Blue Lives Matter even appears to be on the nurse's side in this.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby scipioafricanus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:28 am

Steamforger wrote:Blue Lives Matter even appears to be on the nurse's side in this.

So it seems that both Officer Dick and Lt Head should be arrested for violating two citizen's civil rights.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:18 am

Steamforger wrote:Blue Lives Matter even appears to be on the nurse's side in this.


If it's a regular citizen, ignorantia juris, non excusat.

This defective needs to be charged with a felony. Then he won't be able to work in law enforcement any more.

I would think that defense attorneys would also salivate over any arrest that this defective makes.

"Mr. Defective, have you ever arrested anyone without probable cause?"

Defective: No, sir.

<lawyer plays video>

"So, Mr. Defective, what was your probable cause to arrest this woman in this video? What law do you believe that the woman in this video violated?"

"Your Honor, I request that jurors be instructed to disregard any testimony by Defective. He has shown himself to make unlawful arrests, arrest people without probable cause, and attempt to subject others to 4th Amendment searches without probable cause."
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:14 am

The Idaho police department is thanking Nurse Wubbels.

An Idaho police department is thanking a Utah nurse for stopping a Salt Lake City officer from obtaining a blood sample from one of their reserve officers who was unconscious in a hospital.

Police in the eastern Idaho town of Rigby said Friday that William Gray was severely injured in a Utah crash in July when the semi-truck he was driving for work was hit by another car.

Rigby police said in a statement they didn't know until Thursday that the nurse was arrested after refusing to allow blood to be drawn from Gray.

The department thanked the nurse, Alex Wubbels, and hospital "for standing firm" and protecting the Gray's rights.

It says he is still hospitalized.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Termite » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:35 am

I do believe qualified immunity does not apply in this case, and the officer can be personally sued separate from the city.

And held criminally liable, but I would not hold my breath waiting on the local DA to prosecute, however.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby randy » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:50 pm

If I were Det. Dickhead, I'd pray that I never have to go to that hospital for treatment. Not saying that his care would be less than required, simply that there are ways of providing care that make the experience more unpleasant than others.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby slowpoke » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:15 pm

Ideally I would like to see training to the whole police dept in how to handle unlawful orders. The officers who were present and did not stop him be disciplined. The LT and the detective charged with felony conspiracy to violate civil rights and given a plea bargain for a few years probabation and a violent felony conviction(kidnapping and conspiracy to violate civil rights should do). The fellony convictions should end any LE work, thier gun rights and voting rights. If I were the nurse thats what I would ask for in addition to an expunged arrest record, notorized written apologies explicitly admitting to their fellonious actions and pay my lawyers complete bill.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:03 am

Looks like the fibbies are getting involved.

(Reuters) - The FBI said on Friday it is examining whether federal laws were violated by a Utah police detective who is shown on video assaulting and arresting a nurse after she refused to allow taking a blood sample from an unconscious patient.


He could very well get federal PMITA prison.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Netpackrat » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:29 am

Jered wrote:Looks like the fibbies are getting involved.

(Reuters) - The FBI said on Friday it is examining whether federal laws were violated by a Utah police detective who is shown on video assaulting and arresting a nurse after she refused to allow taking a blood sample from an unconscious patient.


He could very well get federal PMITA prison.


As sure a sign of the apocalypse as cats and dogs living together... But good. Examples need to be made for this kind of shit.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:10 am

Netpackrat wrote:As sure a sign of the apocalypse as cats and dogs living together... But good. Examples need to be made for this kind of shit.


I'm pissed about this because my sister is a nurse.

This cop also probably fucked every other cop that has to take a suspect or a subject that they have detained to the hospital.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby MarkD » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:44 pm

When I'm elected Benign Dictator of the World my first act will be to make violation of civil rights under color of law a capital offense.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:00 am

MarkD wrote:When I'm elected Benign Dictator of the World my first act will be to make violation of civil rights under color of law a capital offense.


They suffer longer if you put them in prison, but, hey, pour encourager les autres.

Oh, and just to show how fucking retarded this cop is Utah has a system where the cop can complete a warrant online and then get an email approval from a judge.

Here are some training materials that mention e-warrants, too.

Here are the Utah rules of criminal procedure that allow electronic warrants.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby scipioafricanus » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:33 am

Jered wrote:
MarkD wrote:When I'm elected Benign Dictator of the World my first act will be to make violation of civil rights under color of law a capital offense.


They suffer longer if you put them in prison, but, hey, pour encourager les autres.

Oh, and just to show how fucking retarded this cop is Utah has a system where the cop can complete a warrant online and then get an email approval from a judge.

Here are some training materials that mention e-warrants, too.

Here are the Utah rules of criminal procedure that allow electronic warrants.

Add "if you are a public servant that commits a crime violating the public trust and/or oath(s), double the mandatory sentencing, and denial of all government pensions" when you are Dictator.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:06 am

scipioafricanus wrote:Add "if you are a public servant that commits a crime violating the public trust and/or oath(s), double the mandatory sentencing, and denial of all government pensions" when you are Dictator.

Remember, we are all working to support Lois Lenner in her retirement.


That would be awesome if you added it to the various civil rights statutes.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby blackeagle603 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:43 pm

Given the distances involved in a sparsely populated state I can see some sense the email warrant business. The devil's in the details of course...

Old buddy of mine recently left private practice for the bench in WA state. Even in a relatively more populous state than UT he's basically a circuit rider driving crazy distances to hold court 5 hour+ drives away in Eastern WA.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby MarkD » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:59 pm

scipioafricanus wrote:
Jered wrote:
MarkD wrote:When I'm elected Benign Dictator of the World my first act will be to make violation of civil rights under color of law a capital offense.


They suffer longer if you put them in prison, but, hey, pour encourager les autres.

Oh, and just to show how fucking retarded this cop is Utah has a system where the cop can complete a warrant online and then get an email approval from a judge.

Here are some training materials that mention e-warrants, too.

Here are the Utah rules of criminal procedure that allow electronic warrants.

Add "if you are a public servant that commits a crime violating the public trust and/or oath(s), double the mandatory sentencing, and denial of all government pensions" when you are Dictator.

Remember, we are all working to support Lois Lerner in her retirement.


No, those would also be capital crimes. Any crime by an elected, appointed, or hired government functionary in which he or she violates the public trust or deprives a member of the public of their rights by misusing their authority shall be a capital crime.

And if a law is determined to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, any elected official who voted in favor of it, executive who signed it into law, or lower court judge who upheld it shall be immediately removed from office (even if it's a.different office than that which they held at the time), stripped on pension, banned for life from public office or service, and shall repay all salary and benefits received from public monies since the date of the voting, signing or upholding.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby MarkD » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:01 pm

Also he said on the video he couldn't GET a warrant because he didn't have Probable Cause, so an email warrant wouldn't have worked either.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:05 am

MarkD wrote:Also he said on the video he couldn't GET a warrant because he didn't have Probable Cause, so an email warrant wouldn't have worked either.


I didn't catch that. So he basically had no reason to demand a blood draw.

What further damns this case is that he can't credibly claim that the nurse was interfering with his investigation because I don't think that he went back and actually obtained the evidence that he supposedly wanted.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby scipioafricanus » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:04 am

Jered wrote:
MarkD wrote:Also he said on the video he couldn't GET a warrant because he didn't have Probable Cause, so an email warrant wouldn't have worked either.


I didn't catch that. So he basically had no reason to demand a blood draw.

What further damns this case is that he can't credibly claim that the nurse was interfering with his investigation because I don't think that he went back and actually obtained the evidence that he supposedly wanted.

The guy he wanted blood from was THE VICTIM of the crash (emphasis for effect at the absurdity of it).
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:49 am

scipioafricanus wrote:
Jered wrote:The guy he wanted blood from was THE VICTIM of the crash (emphasis for effect at the absurdity of it).


I know. This detective is defective. :roll:
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Vonz90 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:18 pm

Let's not let this guy's superiors off the hook. From what I read, the officer's department had a policy for them to take blood samples from everyone involved in an accident even if they were not under arrest. Well such a policy is clearly going to lead to incidents like this - so they should be held responsible for the results.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby skb12172 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:26 pm

Meanwhile, that douchebag YouTuber, Mike The Cop, was defending this. He has since backed off somewhat.

The hospital has changed it's policy. Cops no longer have free access to patient care areas. They must sign in at the front desk and be escorted while in the hospital. :D :D :D
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby HTRN » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:57 pm

Vonz90 wrote:From what I read, the officer's department had a policy for them to take blood samples from everyone involved in an accident even if they were not under arrest.

"Come back with a warrant" :ugeek:
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:43 am

HTRN wrote:"Come back with a warrant" :ugeek:


That's what this nurse told Defective Friendly to do.

Fucking retard didn't. :roll:
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby HTRN » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:55 am

Im not talking about the nurse, im talking about anyone whos blood they want to draw after the fact, especially in light of some theories floating about that the pd was looking for ammunition in case the vic decides to sue them for causing the accident due to pursueing the other driver. Now they're throwing the arresting officer under the bus, along with his supervisor, who publically supported his actions, and i think told him to arrest the nurse in the first place.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby scipioafricanus » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:53 am

HTRN wrote:Im not talking about the nurse, im talking about anyone whos blood they want to draw after the fact, especially in light of some theories floating about that the pd was looking for ammunition in case the vic decides to sue them for causing the accident due to pursueing the other driver. Now they're throwing the arresting officer under the bus, along with his supervisor, who publically supported his actions, and i think told him to arrest the nurse in the first place.

Would a civil rights investigation into every single blood draw from every single hospital done by that police force work? Find a pattern of behavior and get the upper management out.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:09 am

So, I found another story:

Wubbels' attorney, Karra Porter, said the state's implied-consent law "has no relevance in this case whatsoever under anyone's interpretation. ... The officer here admitted on the video and to another officer on the scene that he knew there was no probable cause for a warrant."
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Termite » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:15 pm

Apparently the detective is not aware of the legal concept "fruit of the poisoned tree" with regards to evidence.

Perhaps the DA needs to educate him........ :geek:
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Netpackrat » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:25 pm

Termite wrote:Apparently the detective is not aware of the legal concept "fruit of the poisoned tree" with regards to evidence.


Does that matter if the goal is to obtain evidence for use in a civil trial?
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:47 am

Netpackrat wrote:
Termite wrote:Apparently the detective is not aware of the legal concept "fruit of the poisoned tree" with regards to evidence.


Does that matter if the goal is to obtain evidence for use in a civil trial?


In this case, I think it would because the person who unlawfully obtained the evidence is a government official.

A court would not look at it the same was as a private person unlawfully obtaining evidence, or, at least that what I think.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:53 am

Those policies include conduct unbecoming by a police employee, courtesy in public context, policy regarding arrests, misdemeanor citations, situations requiring a report, law enforcement code of ethics and city policy regarding standards of conduct for employees, the mayor said.


Oops.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby skb12172 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:32 am

Biskupski said Wubbels’ arrest has divided the community. She said Salt Lake City police officers are some of the best law enforcement officers in the country.


It shouldn't unless half the city is in favor of dirty cops who wipe their ass with department policy, state and federal law, plus the Constitution.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby HTRN » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:30 am

Netpackrat wrote:
Termite wrote:Apparently the detective is not aware of the legal concept "fruit of the poisoned tree" with regards to evidence.


Does that matter if the goal is to obtain evidence for use in a civil trial?

Bingo they're trying to prevent a multi million dollar lawsuit by the then unconscious truck driver, who was struck by the other, deceased victim, who was running from the police dept....
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:43 am

The SCLPD's union is not happy about the release of the video.

"The city's handling of this incident," he said, "has corrupted the investigation" required under department regulations, violated public records rules, "and ultimately may prevent Jeff Payne and other officers from receiving a fair disposition of the charges against them.


Translation: we can't cover it up if the video is out there in the public domain.

Hartney said releasing the body camera video while the investigation is still ongoing "has created a public furor which makes reasoned determinations difficult, if not impossible. A furor which did not have to occur," while later adding that release of the video also "creates an explosive atmosphere for no reason whatsoever."


Other than that your cop made a complete ass of himself and probably committed a few felonies on candid camera, you mean.

"The premature release of body cam footage is particularly demoralizing as it allows the public who have not trained as police officers to make what often amounts to biased and ill-informed judgments of the police," the letter states.


Any reasonably rational person who watches that video is going to come to the conclusion that Detective Payne is an ass. This time he got caught on video being an ass. Sounds like they're catching a lot of heat for this.

But Wubbels' attorney, Karra Porter, said Monday that her office talked to the city attorney's office before filing a Government Records Access Management Act request, which was approved. She said her client, who is the subject of the video, obtained it legally.


Yup. Wubbels is the subject of the video. Therefore, she's allowed to request that it be made into a public record and request access to it.

If the police union determines that Payne did not violate any policies or that he was disciplined too harshly, Hartney said it will fully defend him.


They're legally obligated to do so. Of course if he goes to court and gets convicted of a felony, good luck keeping his job after that.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby skb12172 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:03 pm

So predictable. I doubt anybody is buying their sob story.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:48 am

skb12172 wrote:So predictable. I doubt anybody is buying their sob story.


I read through Utah's public record law. Wubbels can make this public if she wants to.

If you don't like a video showing you to be a thug, don't be a thug.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:46 am

The defective has been fired. The lieutenant got demoted.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Catbird » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:25 am

"If at first you don't succeed, that's one data point." XKCD

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:05 am

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby TheArmsman » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:40 am




That was some fascinating reading. Wonder when the civil charges will be forthcoming.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby skb12172 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:47 am

I wonder if hospital security and the Univ of Utah cop were fired or disciplined?
There must be an end to this intimidation by those who come to this great country, but reject its culture.

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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:33 pm

TheArmsman wrote:That was some fascinating reading. Wonder when the civil charges will be forthcoming.


Yep. The other police department told him that they didn't need a blood draw. He didn't tell is lieutenant about that, so the lieutenant told him to arrest Wubbels.

:roll:
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Old Grafton » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:46 pm

TheArmsman wrote:



That was some fascinating reading. Wonder when the civil charges will be forthcoming.


In summary:
"1. You are fired. 2. You should have known better after 27 years. 3. You are a dickhead. 4. You've dragged us all into a trench full of shit. 5. You'll never work in this town again as a cop and We strongly suspect you won't work as an ambulance driver ANYWHERE anytime soon. Go away or We shall taunt you a second time."
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:00 am

Old Grafton wrote:In summary:
"1. You are fired. 2. You should have known better after 27 years. 3. You are a dickhead. 4. You've dragged us all into a trench full of shit. 5. You'll never work in this town again as a cop and We strongly suspect you won't work as an ambulance driver ANYWHERE anytime soon. Go away or We shall taunt you a second time."


Hopefully he has no future as a cop anywhere, either.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby evan price » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:26 am

Jered wrote:The defective has been fired. The lieutenant got demoted.

The LT have an illegal order.
Detective Douchecanoe nut only obeyed an illegal order, he did so with gusto and made it his own in a way that strongly suggests that in his career "contempt of cop" was a commonly arrestable offense.

If only he will be found personally liable for the civil rights violation abd sleeve the rest of his working years swamping toilets in a Taco Bell to pay off the judgement.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby Jered » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:44 am

evan price wrote:The LT have an illegal order.
Detective Douchecanoe nut only obeyed an illegal order, he did so with gusto and made it his own in a way that strongly suggests that in his career "contempt of cop" was a commonly arrestable offense.

If only he will be found personally liable for the civil rights violation abd sleeve the rest of his working years swamping toilets in a Taco Bell to pay off the judgement.


The defective in question manipulated the lieutenant into giving him an illegal order so that he would have cover, too.
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Re: Utah Nurse Arrested for Refusing to Perform Blood Draw

Postby MiddleAgedKen » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:58 am

Sounds like a "drag you down to his level and beat you with experience" type. :|
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