Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

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Spells

Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Spells » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:51 pm

Where can one find accurate information about safe & effective home-built or improvised suppressors? This is a topic that seems to draw all sorts of shifty-looking info.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby 308Mike » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:12 pm

Spells wrote:Where can one find accurate information about safe & effective home-built or improvised suppressors? This is a topic that seems to draw all sorts of shifty-looking info.


Perhaps because most people prefer to stay out of jail? Most people looking to do so seriously go through the proper federal agencies to get the required permits before monkeying around. It's SO MUCH better than winding up in the federal gray-bar hotel.

Other than that, most would say the library or check the Internet. Asking on this site is the WRONG place to do so.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Spells » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:14 pm

I'm assuming this is to head off any stupid follow-up questions? I am asking for information about information, which seems unlikely to be in violation of any law (I know very little about this topic so correct me if I'm wrong). If it's a violation of the spirit of the Terms of Service, I'll certainly comply with that. I understand nobody needs the headaches.

Edit: just saw Mike's reply. Got it.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby eocoolj » Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:38 pm

Chris, wouldnt that make the authors of all those silencer and machine gun books guilty of felonies? Does someone actually have to follow through with making the illegal part for it to be a felony, or just the act of telling him how to do it is illegal?

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Aglifter » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:21 pm

It depends on whether you are merely conveying information, or inciting a criminal act -- it requires intent. EG, say you have an engineering course on controlling super-sonic gases being vented into the atmosphere -- this would correlate to many things, including suppressors, and car exhausts.

Teaching a course called "This is how to build a suppressor and you should use a suppressor, since it will make you a better hitman" is an illegal act.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Highspeed » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:28 pm

I make some pretty good suppressors ( modest, aint I ? :D ) and I have never used or needed a specific book to help me.
It's fairly basic and obvious stuff, especially for .22lr where you don't have to worry about material strength.

The only real difficulties in suppressor design, in my opinion, would be with those intended for military full auto applications. All kinds of new factors come into play then, ones which are definitely out of my range of direct experience.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby workinwifdakids » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:13 am

Spells, I think what you want to post is this:

What are the local, state, and federal requirements I need so that I can legally make a sound suppressor from scratch?


After complying with those legal local, state, and federal regulations, your post would look like this:

I now have complied with all local, state, and federal requirements, and am licensed to make a sound suppressor from scratch. Can someone PM me links to some relevant literature?


I hope that helps...
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby SeekHer » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:49 am

Chris, then if I told him to check Paladin Press or companies like that is that a criminal act?

I have seen many times various book companies having books on Guerrilla Gunsmithing--you know the kind where you can convert a 10/22 or an AR-7 to full auto or build a silencer--they all have in big type "Available for research purposes only" even though the books or now DVDs show you step by step how to construct it. How do the printer, the distributor, the retailer and the buyer not get arrested?
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Jericho941 » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:01 am

IIRC Paladin Press got in some trouble after some idiot read their "How to be a Hitman" book and offed his wife. They might've just pulled publication of the book, though. In any case, just having the information could well be taken as intent to commit a crime, since just building one is a crime all by itself.

I'm kinda curious about the legal process/requirements for their construction, but it's pretty much academic since you can't mount them on anything in this state.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Highspeed » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:37 pm

SeekHer wrote:
I have seen many times various book companies having books on Guerrilla Gunsmithing--you know the kind


I think I own nearly all of those various kinds of title ( in electronic format )
I'm very cynical about the quality of the information in them. A lot of stuff they describe either won't work at all in the real world, won't work reliably or creates a weapon which is horribly unsafe to the user and anyone around him.
The Poor Mans James Bond series are probably the worst and not worth the space they occupy.
The exception are the Bill Holmes books, he builds real guns and understands how they work.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby randy » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:09 pm

Highspeed wrote:A lot of stuff they describe either won't work at all in the real world, won't work reliably or creates a weapon which is horribly unsafe to the user and anyone around him.


A friend of mine once theorized that some of these books (ones published in late 60's and 70's) were actually disinformation by the FBI or some other government agency to get wanna-be radicals to take themselves out as they tried to implement some of these designs.

Interesting theory, but I think "never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity" applies.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Highspeed » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:23 pm

randy wrote:A friend of mine once theorized that some of these books (ones published in late 60's and 70's) were actually disinformation by the FBI or some other government agency to get wanna-be radicals to take themselves out as they tried to implement some of these designs.

Interesting theory, but I think "never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity" applies.


Crossed my mind as well, but I reached the same conclusion as you.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Aglifter » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:54 pm

Even the hitman idiot only really got into trouble, because he said he expected people would follow his instructions to kill people - he violated the "never talk" rule when dealing w. the state.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby 308Mike » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:11 am

People do this kind of stuff for academic reasons, to figure out what's involved, the processes, the physical limitations or various items, the amount of time and skill involved, etc.

That's how they get away with being able to have academic discussions about building nuclear bombs. They're not encouraging anyone to do anything illegal, they're having spirited academic discussions (like: "no, you dumbass, if you do that, you'll blow yourself up and a hundred blocks around you will become a smoking crater!"). :lol:

I mean, look at some of the stuff they show in the movies - ideas, techniques, etc. Think about the movie "Heat" and the Hollywood shootout. Think about the Clancy book, Debt of Honor, and the subsequent flying of airliners into the towers on 9/11. That book came out in 1994, and when I saw the towers burning on 9/11, I IMMEDIATELY thought of that book (I read it a couple of years before).

You can't stop people from having ideas, and sometimes using other people's ideas to do something illegal, immoral, or deadly with them. But we CERTAINLY don't want to be the source of anyone doing something like that.

I have no idea how Clancy feels about his book and 9/11 - and of course they could have thought of the airliner thing completely separately, or how Michael Mann feels about the Hollywood shootout. Sure he didn't put the guns in their hands or told them to do it and he's not responsible for their actions, but IIRC, they got the idea for that bank job from the movie.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Cybrludite » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:02 pm

Highspeed wrote:
randy wrote:A friend of mine once theorized that some of these books (ones published in late 60's and 70's) were actually disinformation by the FBI or some other government agency to get wanna-be radicals to take themselves out as they tried to implement some of these designs.

Interesting theory, but I think "never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity" applies.


Crossed my mind as well, but I reached the same conclusion as you.
" Hypotheses should not be multiplied " :D


Had a professor in college who'd worked for RAND back in the day who said that the .gov did, in fact, put out subtly wrong editions of things like the Anarchist Cookbook, and that one such was involved in the "oopsie" which took out several Weather Underground folks. Even without such versions, the AC did assume that the reader knew some chemistry, much like a regular cookbook assumes you know the difference between parboiling & simmering. Add in the fact that in one volume you've got instructions on making both LSD & nitroglycerin, and it's a wonder there weren't more "own goals" on the domestic terrorist side. "Like, wait, are those pink vapors coming from the nitro, or like from my mind, man? Whoa, watch what happens when I wave my hand aro..." ***KA-BOOOOM!*** :lol:
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby SeekHer » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:28 pm

CByrneIV wrote:
SeekHer wrote:Chris, then if I told him to check Paladin Press or companies like that is that a criminal act?

I have seen many times various book companies having books on Guerrilla Gunsmithing--you know the kind where you can convert a 10/22 or an AR-7 to full auto or build a silencer--they all have in big type "Available for research purposes only" even though the books or now DVDs show you step by step how to construct it. How do the printer, the distributor, the retailer and the buyer not get arrested?


Unsolicited publiciations that are published and made generally available are generally protected under the first amendment; unless they include a specific incitement to an illegal act.

So saying "go to paladin press" or even "the information you are looking for may be in this book" are just fine; so long as you don't go into much specific detail.


I added a booklist on Engraving & Gunsmithing (including Guerilla) to the Culture Junkies Forum that has some interesting titles…
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Highspeed » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:31 pm

SeekHer - great list. A few of the guerilla books aren't good though.

The H and K full auto book describes a conversion which is inherently unsafe. I'll not describe why though.
The 10\22 conversion seems sensible but it doesn't work properly in practise. Again I don't think it would be within forum rules to explain myself.
The Homemade Guns and Ammo book contains both stuff which won't work properly and stuff which is dangerous.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Flintlock Tom » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:54 pm

I read that in Tom Clancy's book, The Sum of all Fears, where-in Islamic terrorists acquire a nuke, that he purposely made the process of turning it into a portable weapon more complicated than it really is just to keep certain people from daydreaming about doing it.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby mekender » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:56 pm

Flintlock Tom wrote:I read that in Tom Clancy's book, The Sum of all Fears, where-in Islamic terrorists acquire a nuke, that he purposely made the process of turning it into a portable weapon more complicated than it really is just to keep certain people from daydreaming about doing it.


the hardest part about making a nuke is getting the radioactive material... the electronics involved can be done by any first year electrical engineering student so long as they have accurate plans. the explosives required to set off the chain reaction are hard to get but not impossible.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Highspeed » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:44 am

Supposedly the latest nukes have their PAL's linked to anti intrusion devices which will render the warhead inert ( well, kind of :D ) if they fall into the wrong hands. The information on how this is achieved isn't available in open literature, but common sense suggests that attempts to bypass the PAL will bugger up the pit in some way, possibly by a single point detonation ( you wouldn't want to be anywhere near a single point detonation, but there isn't any significant yield )
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby 308Mike » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:11 am

Guys, let's try and get back on topic, please. We're a LONG ways from a suppressed .22 at this point. :lol:
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Highspeed » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:23 am

An on-topic thread Mike ? when was the last time we had one of those ? :D
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby jetfxr69 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:30 am

Hey guys, did you see that Bear run by here with the suppressed suitcase nuke in the assault wheelbarrow?

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby mekender » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:16 am

jetfxr69 wrote:Hey guys, did you see that Bear run by here with the suppressed suitcase nuke in the assault wheelbarrow?



yeah, he was trying to find out what caliber would be best of moose.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Combat Controller » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:13 am

Still, could make a dirty bomb with that fissile material....
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Mike OTDP » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:27 pm

Back to the OP....

If you are trying to build an illegal suppressor, don't. The ATF will be on your back like a ton of bricks. It's not that hard to do this legally. There are only about 10 states that prohibit ownership of suppressors.

If you are trying to build a suppressor legally, try the ATF web site and download the appropriate forms to build a suppressor. Get those approved FIRST unless you fancy Leavenworth Penitentiary as a home address. Then head over to the Paladin Press website and start rummaging for books.

Now, if you are just interested in how a can works, I recommend Alan Paulson's book "Silencer History & Performance, volume 1". It's probably the best published work...although courses in boundary layer theory and heat transfer would also be enlightening.

And if you want a suppressor to shoot, try one of the established makers, buy one legally. They can do a better job than you can in your home workshop. Loads of fun.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Weetabix » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:51 pm

Speaking of Clancy, didn't John Kelly make a suppressor in Without Remorse?
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby rightisright » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:52 pm

Speaking of Clancy, didn't John Kelly make a suppressor in Without Remorse?


I think that's the book. I remember something about him being on an island when he made it.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby SeekHer » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:52 pm

Highspeed wrote:SeekHer - great list. A few of the guerilla books aren't good though.

The H and K full auto book describes a conversion which is inherently unsafe. I'll not describe why though.
The 10\22 conversion seems sensible but it doesn't work properly in practise. Again I don't think it would be within forum rules to explain myself.
The Homemade Guns and Ammo book contains both stuff which won't work properly and stuff which is dangerous.

I got lambasted at another Forum for submitting my "Sniper Booklist" being told that I got it all from Google etc.

My retort was that I'd been collecting books for nearly 45 years (since I started shooting competitively) and just try to amass that collection from Google, I even dared them and got no takers but I added this:
They are presented for your edification…To pick and choose which are good, bad or indifferent imparts my bias to the equation; some of them are pure crap and other are a pure joy but from each and every one I’ve learned something, albeit small, insignificant and usually mundane, but something nonetheless…

Not being a LEO I’ll not comment on any of the police sniper books for tactics etc as I’m not familiar with them and any other countries military usage of sniper’s I can only read about…my countries and Israel’s snipers I can deal with first hand as I know them and in the latter case survived them

The same applies to any other booklist that I’ve submitted…The gunsmithing ones on Guerrilla work I’ve never undertaken and don’t know if they are valid, effective or pure cow poopoo and my friends, who actually have the books, bought them for “knowledge & entertainment purposes only”…

My total catalogue of all of our outdoor & firearm books is about 9,500 volumes of which I had over 5,400 in my own personal library with the balance amongst the other members of the “Insane Shooters gun club” have on their shelves…Some volumes have 40 or 50 copies scattered amongst us and others just one…

I appreciate your input regarding the safety issued and will notify my friends about them, not that they’d make any of those illegal arms in the first place…It’s also one reason that I’ll almost never submit a cartridge loading to the forum—I know they work good in my guns but I don’t know your guns and the stress they can take—I really don’t want the ramifications of having your gun blow up because of something I gave you to try…
There is a certain type of mentality that thinks if you make certain inanimate objects illegal their criminal misuse will disappear!

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby 308Mike » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:21 pm

rightisright wrote:
Speaking of Clancy, didn't John Kelly make a suppressor in Without Remorse?


I think that's the book. I remember something about him being on an island when he made it.


Was that the part where he had that drug dealer in the decompression chamber and was bouncing him up and down depth-wise? That was a GREAT book (even if it was over 600 pages)!
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.

I remain pessimistic given the way BATF and the anti gun crowd have become tape worms in the guts of the Republic. - toad

Spells

Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Spells » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:45 pm

That's one of my favorite books. The compression cylinder thing was AWESOME.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Weetabix » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:10 pm

308Mike wrote:
rightisright wrote:
Speaking of Clancy, didn't John Kelly make a suppressor in Without Remorse?


I think that's the book. I remember something about him being on an island when he made it.


Was that the part where he had that drug dealer in the decompression chamber and was bouncing him up and down depth-wise? That was a GREAT book (even if it was over 600 pages)!


He'd leased the island from the government. It had been some sort of Navy installation. He built the suppressor in his machine shop, then came back later to put the bad guy in the tank.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby evan price » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:20 am

In Without Remorse iirc the first can was actually made by a machinist's mate on board the navy ship Clark/Kelly was travelling on to infiltrate that VC POW camp, was it not? Intended to silence his rifle?

Anyway a great book with backstory to explain a great character.

Clancy even goes on to explain how easy it is to build an actual nuke in his background to Sum of All Fears when he called up Milacron and asked for specs on the machines the .gov uses to make nuclear bombs, they cheerfully sent him a suitcase full of product info.

It's not hard to get nuke materials, or at least it wasn't if you were creative, as a matter of fact there was a young kid in Michigan that came close by accident. Ever hear of "The Radioactive Boy Scout"??
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html

Blah Blah..OK, back on topic.

Once you have your BATFE tax paid, why bother with an improvised suppressor when Tactical Innovations or Gemtech make them for $300 or less? And properly serial numbered, and ready to use.
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby 308Mike » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:59 pm

evan price wrote:Once you have your BATFE tax paid, why bother with an improvised suppressor when Tactical Innovations or Gemtech make them for $300 or less? And properly serial numbered, and ready to use.


Because in California, possession of one is a FELONY (California Penal Code):

12520. Any person, firm, or corporation who within this state
possesses a silencer is guilty of a felony and upon conviction
thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison or by a
fine not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or by both.


The only exemptions are for "authorized personnel" - military, police, etc.
POLITICIANS & DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON

A person properly schooled in right and wrong is safe with any weapon. A person with no idea of good and evil is unsafe with a knitting needle, or the cap from a ballpoint pen.

I remain pessimistic given the way BATF and the anti gun crowd have become tape worms in the guts of the Republic. - toad

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby evan price » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:40 am

308Mike wrote:
evan price wrote:Once you have your BATFE tax paid, why bother with an improvised suppressor when Tactical Innovations or Gemtech make them for $300 or less? And properly serial numbered, and ready to use.


Because in California, possession of one is a FELONY (California Penal Code):

12520. Any person, firm, or corporation who within this state
possesses a silencer is guilty of a felony and upon conviction
thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison or by a
fine not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or by both.


The only exemptions are for "authorized personnel" - military, police, etc.


Mike, what I was getting at is, why spend time and material re-inventing the wheel PLUS a $200 tax stamp for what might be a piece of junk. Why bother with improvised suppressors when for what I feel is the very reasonable sum of $200-$300 you can buy a properly engineered, well-made, precision machined piece of gear that will meet all BATFE criteria. If you are going to make your own, unless you happen to own or have access to at least a good knee mill and/or a lathe (Or better yet, a four-axis CNC), you'll spend more than $200 on materials and frustration.

Of course in Kalifornistan you are shyte out of luck either way...Or I suppose you could drink a lot of soda or make some french fries...
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby HTRN » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:32 pm

Mike OTDP wrote:Now, if you are just interested in how a can works, I recommend Alan Paulson's book "Silencer History & Performance, volume 1". It's probably the best published work...although courses in boundary layer theory and heat transfer would also be enlightening.


Seconded - I have volume 2, which get's into the history of Suppressor technology, and it's facintating.

Building a can is easy, building a can that has a high DB suppression, works well, and isn't the size of soup can is another matter - The technology is an "art" more than a science, as it's not a steady state event, but rather an impulse. The "community" of designers is small, and you generally see them move from company to company, rather than into and out of the field.

Personally, I think building(LEGALLY) a can might be fun, but anything more than a .22 starts dealing with enough "gas" that building a decent design becomes a challenge, especially when so much of the design practices are closely guarded secrets of the respective companies.


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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Denis » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:44 am

On Clancy's "without remorse": I noticed recently that the passage with the detailed description of how to build a can was excised from a recent edition of the book. If you want to read it, buy an old edition second-hand...

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Glenn Bartley » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:03 am

In any case, just having the information could well be taken as intent to commit a crime...
By whom would something like this be taken as intent to commit a crime. I have several books that contain details about murders; without my murdering someone is that evidence that my intent is to commit murder at sometime in the future. I also have detailed plans on how to build a suppressor, or had them, I think they went with 6WTC on 9/11, but they could be in a drawer at work still. Guess where I got them, from my job as an officer safety bulletin. I don't think anyone would believe possession of them by me as proof of intent on my part to build a silencer.

As for telling someone how to build one - for academic purposes - there is no crime. As for telling someone how to build one, when you have no reason to believe they would do so illegally, there is no crime. As for telling someone how to build one when you think they will build one legally, there is no crime. There really are no mind police yet :) ; almost but not quite :roll: . Of course if you tell someone how to build one because you are aware, or believe, they intend to build one illegally, you can be charged with conspiracy - and that is even if no one then takes any action to do it (maybe there are mind police after all :shock: ).

That out of the way, I would imagine that you can find very simple ideas for making suppressors in old Shotgun News editions (look to the advertisement sections), and you can probably find plans on how to actually make them in many of the already mentioned publications. You might also find similar information in certain military manuals. You can also look to sources such as Wikipedia, and you could probably figure out how to make one from their article about suppressors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor, or you could look at a site like this: http://www.canadiantactical.ca/technical.html.

Of course you could always go to this site: http://www.gun-shots.net/suppressors-silencers.shtml to get actual instructions on how to build a suppressor for a 22. You will notice that after the article there is a large list of books that tell you how to make a silencer. Sharing this information is not illegal in and of itself. If it was illegal then all of the authors, publishers, distributors, and people who bought those books would probably be in big trouble right about now.

The page where I found links to the things I mentioned in the previous paragraph can be found here: http://www.gun-shots.net/firearm-gun-silencers-suppressors.shtml#firearm-gun-silencer-suppressor. It also has links to things like abbreviated state regulations on suppressors, federal regulations and so forth. They might be good reading. In addition, as others have suggested, if you plan on actually building a firearms suppressor, do it legally; and make sure you have got all the legal aspects correct before you begin. if on the other hand, you are just curious for purely academic purposes, well then you can get all the instructions you want here in the USA, all without violating any laws of which I am aware; but alas I certainly am not aware of all laws so check your state and or locality before doing so.

Please be absolutely clear on one thing: You should never violate the law, or intend to violate the law, with regard to planning to build one, or building or possessing a suppressor.

You should also be absolutely sure of one other thing: Home gunsmithing, including building your own improvised firearms' suppressor can be potentially dangerous to you and others. You have no way of knowing for certain if plans about an improvised device are safe, or in other words if the device you build will be safe. Most improvised devices like improvised suppressor are built from items never meant to be used for said purpose, for example the design in the link above wherein a suppressor is made from PVC pipe. Remember such an improvised or homemade device, or any device like it could blow up in your face, or it could cause a shot to go astray and kill someone accidentally, or it could have other potentially disastrous outcomes just waiting to happen. My guess would be that if you want to obtain a suppressor for firearms you would be best off buying a professionally made one through legal channels.

All the best,
Glenn Bartley
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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Mike OTDP » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:39 pm

I will confess that if I ever have a whack at a doctoral thesis, the application of computational fluid dynamics to suppressor design would be intriguing. And damned hard...you're talking about non-steady-state flow, boundary layer effects, the deliberate induction of turbulence, and heat transfer issues.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby HTRN » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:41 pm

Also, at that pressure level, gases behave more like liquids. AFAIK, alot of what's done in can design is done built on previous knowledge learned through trial and error. and designed using computer simulations.


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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Mike OTDP » Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:54 pm

Apparently, nobody has come up with a good math model yet. The fluid dynamics are VERY complicated, as you are talking about highly turbulent flow, substantial heat transfers, and all of it in the boundary layer.

As I've said, it's a doctoral thesis. And not a simple one, either.

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Re: Improvised or homemade .22 suppressors

Postby Highspeed » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:36 pm

Mike OTDP wrote:Apparently, nobody has come up with a good math model yet.


I can believe that. Some years ago a friend of mine took a problem to the CFD guys at the aero engine division of Rolls Royce ( my friend worked there too, as an engineer )
The problem was to simulate the airflow in the transfer port of a spring piston air rifle, with a view to establishing an optimum shape.
The CFD guys did some initial calculations and told my friend that they didn't have any existing code which was suitable and creating some would be a huge project, so they couldn't help.
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