The Gun Counter

I found an old blackpowder pistol that looks in great condition, it says "sayers & forrest" on one side and "oxford" on the other. It's a flintlock with 2 superposed barrels and I found a flint for it too, if I wanted to shoot it how do I figure out what caliber it is and how do i load it and all?

Is this a recently made gun or is it from the flintlock era? First thing to do is make sure it isn't loaded. Use the ram rod as a depth guage. To find the caliber you would have to slug the bore, put a lead slug down it and pull it back out and measure the slug you pulled out. You could also measure the bore at the end and be close.

To load use maybe thirty grains of 2 or 3f black powder, do not use modern smokeless powder, then use a lead ball in a greased patch made of pillow ticking or denim from your jeans. This is started with a ball starter and then use the ram rod to ram it home. For priming use 4f powder in the pan.

That sound like a really interesting find. Do you have any pictures?

Edit:

I just spend a bunch of time over at Dixie gun works looking at their flintlocks, Howdah, and an original pepperbox for sale At gunbroker I found a beautiful German flintlock and a massive "Tower" pistol. I need to shoot my 1860 Army soon or I am going to end up with another gun.

The best investment a blackpowder newbie can make is buying the DGW catalog; in addition to selling things that you didn't know you needed, it has instructions for developing a safe, accurate load for your new smokewagon (yes, Virginia, you CAN overload a blackpowder firearm) and troubleshooting tips for when it goes "ffffffttttt" instead of "bang".

Blackpowder guns are a lot of fun to shoot, and can be surprisingly accurate, if you pay attention to what you're doing.

Just remember that you've opened a whole new can of worms.

Haha I didn't intend to open a can of worms, and can't take pics atm my camera's batteries died. But I'd love to shoot it. It looks gorgeous! I can't leave something so old and pretty sitting all bored in a safe It's clearly from the era, it looks like the pics Kim posted of stuff with case hardening. Not sure what case hardening is but the steel has that iridescent look. I looked down it with a flashlight and its not loaded, there's no ramrod though. If I wanted to use a micrometer of some sort or something to find the diameter should I use the lands or grooves? I don't have any lead with which to slug it. I don't see how i could be accurate with it since the flint arm part is in the way of any sighting, though it does have rifling. It looks more like something you'd hide in a coat pocket and use at close range if needed.

Measure land-to-land. With most rifled firearms from that era, the ball was normally undersized by several thousandths (i.e., a .50 caliber would use a .490 or .495 ball) and was seated on a lubed patch of cloth or very light leather, which would actually engage the rifling and impart spin to the ball.

If you do try to shoot it, make sure your patching is 100% cotton or linen. Synthetics tend to melt, stink, and foul the bore.

Your last description gives me to think that it is a pocket pistol and isn't intended to be aimed, just fired at very close range...an early deringer (correct spelling by the way) pocket pistol...

Get it checked out, send a letter to some collectors like the NRA publication Arms & Armour or even Dixie Gun Works but don't fire it until you verify that it is:
a) safe to do so and
b) you're not possibly destroying a national treasure...

But measure between the lands--the raised portions--not the grooves...

Back to the OP...

If possible, post a picture. From your description, you have an original tap-action pocket pistol. Not terribly accurate...and it may not be rifled. These guns were made for self-defense at 5 yards or so.

If you really want to shoot it, there are several things that you need to do.

First, have someone knowledgable about black powder firearms look the gun over. Make sure there is nothing that is going to blow up.

Second, figure out what the bore size is. Use a micrometer to measure the bore diameter. If the gun is rifled, measure from land to land...the high parts of the rifling.

Third, get yourself round balls of the appropriate size...as close to the bore diameter as possible. Then choose a patch. The total of the bullet diameter and two patch thicknesses should be equal to (or just slightly bigger) than the bore.

Fourth, load with about 10 grains of 3Fg black powder. Prime the pan with 4Fg if you can get a small supply...otherwise, 3F will do. This isn't a duelling pistol, after all.

Shoot and enjoy.

Pictures:

http://i37.tinypic.com/wvael0.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/149cox1.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/9sutte.jpg

I have a scale to measure the powder in the garage with the reloading stuff but how would I measure the powder at the range? Especially such a small amount.

And it looks like there's i dunno maybe fake rifling at the edge of the muzzle but it's smooth inside.

Last question first: you can buy or make you own dippers for the exact charge needed...I have some commercial one in plastic with little handles, some that look like cartridge cases with a handle welded on and cut to size, made a set out of a deer's antler tines...You can also keep a charge in empty medicine vials or camera film cases...

Typical double barrel pocket pistol, probably from the 1770s to the 1830s, sometimes called a vest(e) pistol or a gambler's last ace...probably around a .32 or .33 maybe .35caliber.

My resources are now quite limited on older firearms and couldn't find anything about them other then a Sayer was making pepperbox pistols...and there is barely anything on the gun or her makers on the Internet...

MikeOTDP will probably give you more concise information,,,