making guns???

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snarky

making guns???

Post by snarky »

My Father in law is considering manufacturing. He has a partner and an Idea. he is asking me if there are gunsmiths or manufacturers who could give him some idea of the start up costs. This is not intended to compete with glock or the big guys. But shop space, CNC machine, Drill press, Lathe... etc. What is needed and what is the cost roughly?

any one have any information or directions to point us in?
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Denis
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Re: making guns???

Post by Denis »

Welcome.

I think the first thing your FIL would need to do would be to get in touch with the BATFE and get a suitable federal firearms licence to cover any manufacturing operations, including the manufacture of prototypes. No doing so runs the risk of committing a felony.

I would also recommend that he retain a lawyer experienced in dealing with the ATF, at least to see him through the licensing labyrinth. If his "idea" involves something novel, and potentially patentable, he should not disclose it to anyone (including potential business partners), but should consult a patent attorney.

Other members more competent than I would be able to comment on the costs of setting up a machining / manufacturing operation.
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HTRN
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Re: making guns???

Post by HTRN »

He could do it as cheaply as a single VMC, or even just a CNC mill.

Of course, that's assuming extremely low demand, which means limited profits. More likely is he's gonna have to buy/lease a coupla machining centers, hire at least a coupla machinists, workbenches, tooling, errata.. He's also gonna need space. Also don't figure on turning a profit for at least a year, maybe longer.

I'd figure on probably at least a quarter mil, up to a million to setup, depending on how much he's leasing vs. ownership(IE buildings and capital equipment). Manufacturing has become a very capital intensive market segment.


HTRN
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snarky

Re: making guns???

Post by snarky »

Understood. I completely agree that these steps must be addressed. He has a partner who has done this before. i dont think they intend to do anything "novel".
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Aglifter
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Re: making guns???

Post by Aglifter »

Pistols or rifles? High end? If they're going for high-end, it MAY be cheaper/worth it from marketing to just contract w. a barrel provided.

I believe Sig USA uses (4) 60K CNC mills to make all their pistol frames - at least that's what I recall from one of those Midway sponsored shows.

Now, the main kicker - why? If one of them is wealthy, and just wants to play, great - otherwise, if they aren't planning anything novel - what reason is there to buy one of their guns than someone else's?
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor

A gentleman unarmed is undressed.

Collects of 1903/08 Colt Pocket Auto
snarky

Re: making guns???

Post by snarky »

My understanding is that they are doing (for lack of a better phrase) wallhangers. Copies of Dragoons or Walker Colts that are limited edition collectables. I am probably not in a position to defend the business case. They are going after this as a money making venture. They are not just spending money for fun.

They seem to want to control the means of production themselves with as few partners as possible. When I said they were not doing anything novel I meant from a invention stand point. I think Uberti would be the closest sort of competitor. I asked them if they intended on going after the cowboy action market but they are not. I dont think they intend for these guns to be er... used as weapons but rather high end reproductions of highly desired old models.

I get the indication that they are probably doing more pistols but I am not sure. I think they want to talk to some gun smith live on the phone who can help them get an idea of the start up costs.
DwightG

Re: making guns???

Post by DwightG »

This is sort of a "how high is up" question. You need to know what it is you're making to even make a wild guess at an actual dollar figure. You don't just buy a CNC machine and start making stuff. There's all the support equipment (air compressors etc.), tooling (cutters, tool holders, vises, collets, etc. etc. ad infinitum), fixtures and on and on. Much of it specific to what you're making. Beyond simple parts, you don't just clamp the part in a vise and go. Then there's all the finishing equipment for making high end stuff. Polishing etc. can be very labor intensive and/or difficult to automate on a small scale. Things like heat-treating and plating are best farmed out unless you get really big. If you have a mill, you'll need a lathe & vice versa and the know how to use them. Skill at drafting and designing is a must in small manufacturing unless you have unlimited funds to farm out all your tooling and fixture design and manufacturing. This raises the question of, if you have unlimited funds, why are you thinking of going into manufacturing?? :o

This reminds me of a question raised a few years ago about what does it cost to get into metal working. You can start with a file and the sky's the limit thereafter.
Dedicated_Dad
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Re: making guns???

Post by Dedicated_Dad »

All of this makes the vids of the Paki cave-dwellers all the more amazing - no?
workinwifdakids wrote:MV Gun Counter: "We're like Blackwater, except without the impulse control."
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HTRN
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Re: making guns???

Post by HTRN »

Not anymore than monkey's pounding on typewriters makes them bards. They(the "gunsmiths" of the tribal areas) build low grade crap.



HTRN
HTRN, I would tell you that you are an evil fucker, but you probably get that a lot ~ Netpackrat

Describing what HTRN does as "antics" is like describing the wreck of the Titanic as "a minor boating incident" ~ First Shirt
Dedicated_Dad
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Re: making guns???

Post by Dedicated_Dad »

HTRN wrote:Not anymore than monkey's pounding on typewriters makes them bards. They(the "gunsmiths" of the tribal areas) build low grade crap.

HTRN
Low grade crap that WORKS. Plenty of our guys (and those of our allies) would vouch for the efficacy of their AKs - if they could.

To me, it's the ultimate answer to the "gun-grabbers." The reason the vast majority of Americans don't have full-auto weapons is that we don't WANT them -- at least not badly enough to risk the current penalty.

How many of couldn't produce a lightning-link or one of the german-guy's "DIAS"s in our garage if we had to? How many couldnt build one of the "Luty" designs without even power-tools?

Even if they WERE able to make all the guns disappear at once - like magic - they'd be back before the sun dawned in mountain time.

DD
workinwifdakids wrote:MV Gun Counter: "We're like Blackwater, except without the impulse control."
Random Internet Moron wrote: "High Caliber Magazine Clips are only useful for random slaughter of innocent civilians, so they should only be used by the police."
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